Well not according to the hydro stores. They been tellin me its the top of the line lol, guess thats because they like my money. Whats funny is they say they use it but cant answer any questions about how to use it.
Hydro store owners in general are in a conflicting situation in that they need to chose between profit and honest advice.Originally Posted by KrAzY80
Some may not have the foresight to see that happy customers are more profitable in the long run than customers who were gauged in the short term.
Exactly, they leave this shit out on purpose hoping your dumb enough (no offense) to buy a freaking million dollars worth of suppliments, boosters and voodoo juice... Literally! None of which fix the issue, only drain your $ faster.
Unless your the hydro store owner
From my experience 9/10 go for the gouge the customer now & fuckem later method. At least in Phoenix they do it that way. Very rare to find a honest one. Because honestly you probably dont need 75% of the shit in their store or more.
Thanks for chiming in on this one HB
Arizona Caregiver - Fully Compliant AZ Prop 203 Medical Grow
I run Advanced (currently in dirt. bigger yields system) and I always mix additives at full strength and then add my base. I use Connie and it is strong so I would never mix what they say. I start @1/4 strength and work up to my desired ppms. I have never had any problem with deficiencies. I have pushed them right to the edge (1800ppm week 5) with some leaf burn at the end on occasion. 9 times out of 10 they take it well. Some strains DO NOT like Advanced. Switched to Botanicare for the fussy ones problem solved. But every Sativa dom, and heavy feeding Indica dom has been very happy with Advanced. Bluedream, Sour Diesel, 2 or 3 kushes, OG cross and others have been happy. One thing for sure- depending on your medium you will get different results. Coco can be more challenging and I know growers who have to add sensical to fend off mag deficiency. The new ph perfect base formulations are supposed to have fulvic to aid in uptake. Don't know if that might make a difference since I am using the tried and true non ph Perfect formula.
I guess I am one of the "stupid" ones since I buying alot of bottles . My experience is if you don't run pretty much the full line of additives they won't produce as nice. I figure the extra yield I get consistantly makes the extra couple of hundred worth it. It is a pain in the ass to have so many bottles though. When ever I change it up, I am usually disappointed with the results.
As far as shop owners go. If they say they use the product and can't tell you how to use it they are lying about using it. At my favorite shop they can't bullshit because they can't afford to lose customers. They tell me straight up if they don't know something and have told me what was best to dump or substitute when cash was tight to get the best results. I guess i'm lucky to have a good shop from the sound of it.
Last edited by Moon Dog; 07-24-2012 at 03:37 AM.
read all 8 pages, good to read and friendly thread as well !
AzCannaMan, you gave a good advices !
happy gardening and peace
I started with soil and the 3 part and was using well water. I didnt have very many issues because i would repot 3 times. Twice in veg and into a 5 gal bucket for flower so I imagine the soil was doing alot of buffering. I went to bubble buckets and got city water and been dealing with everything you can imagine. Went to sensi grow and conny and it was another learning curve.
I do alright flowering 2 plant scrog under 1000w but i feel my yield could go up if i didnt have issues throughout grow. My last was a swiss cheese and ice and got 20 zips between the 2. I think it should be more like 25. I have the water to nute uptake dialed in but my plants still show deficiencies and i use cal/mag, big bud, overdrive, carboload and b52. I have also used rhino skin, senzyme, and some other shit but didnt do anything but make shit worse. I use mag pro sometimes to for p and micros and it helps but drops my ph alot. I try to use nutes to regulate my ph in addbacks so I can go longer between rez changes.
My thing is if I am dropping twice as much on nutes then it should atleast be able to provide the basics in the base nutes. Shouldnt require 15 bottles of shit make it work. I bet gh would kick A/Ns ass if you were just using the base nutes from what i see on here and they are half the price.
Yeah cannaman ur advise is sound. I got some ro and did what u said and added 5ml/gal of cal/mag. They look alot better but the test will be in mid flower.
If you're having issues, the GH 3-part is solid. H&G's Aqua Flakes is probably even better and cheaper too. I've used both with RO water and didn't see any issues, though I was using magpro with Aqua Flakes. Simple stuff really and it works without you needing the inventory of a small hydro shop.
I bought into the whole AN lineup and spend over $1,000 my first round... The girls were just okay. Second round I switched to Canna halfway through flower, i shit you not- 24 hours after their first watering they looked healthier than they ever had since inception! The crazy thing is i only used about 4 bottles with Canna... In dirt... Those bottles cost me only 1/4 of the freaking AN lineup! I switched because i was so frustrated with the deficiencies i kept getting. I guess if i were to compare it to a car it would be like buying a Ferrari... Then you drive it home only to realize it's got a gremlin motor under the hood! (Fancy labels, website and marketing for AN, but the product itself... ugh...) If it works for you bro go for it. The excessive levels of heavy metals such as Cadmium, Lead, Arecenic, and whatnot were the nail in the coffin for AN for me forever. I dont want any of that in my meds. Especially when they charge an arm and a nut for the shit...
By the way i aslo justified the extra cost by saying "well if i get x # more zips..." yeah. In the end it is still like 50x more $ than other stuff if you buy all the additives.
Thank you sir! I am trying to be helpful, ive posted what I found to be the best way to use AN in this thread. yes, you really should start from the beginning! Good Call!read all 8 pages, good to read and friendly thread as well !
AzCannaMan, you gave a good advices !
happy gardening and peace
My thoughts exactly, why do you need 15 bottles of shit to make the base work? If the base dosent work then how much stock can you put in the rest of the lineup? The answer is none for me.
Do like me and switch to Canna mid flower if you want to see your jaw drop. Your only regret will be not doing so earlier. Glad the Cal/Mg is helping...
I think the fact AN blows donkey dick is well evedinced by your AN vs Dynagrow AK47 grow. If thats the one im thinking of AN is clearly the looser. And it's just base to base comparison.
I now use Dynagrow on my moms now because it's cheaper than hell and it's actually complete. Although I do add some extra cal/mg since im using RO water.
For all you that think AN is all good check out this link-> http://www.manicbotanix.com/hydro-hy...deception.html
And here is an analysis on "Big Bud" note the excessive levels of heavy toxic metals and how they lie like snakes about the amount of Mg... Which is like almost zero.
“Advanced Nutrients 0-15-40 Big Bud
On April 29, 2009 the Department found this product being offered for sale or
distribution at Northern Light and Garden in Beaverton, Oregon. Subsequent analysis found it was deficient in magnesium (Mg), L-Arginine, L-Aspartic Acid, L-Glycine, LHistidine, L-Isoleucine, L-Leucine, L-Phenylalanine, L-Proline, L-Tyrosine, and L-Valine:
Constituent Concentration (%)
Claimed on LabelConcentration Found
By AnalysisAvailable Phosphate 15 16.7 Soluble Potash 40 40.4 Magnesium
7.0 0.0148 Total Nitrogen none claimed 0.944 Alanine - Total 0.3 0.348 Ammonia - Total none claimed 0.225 Arginine - Total 0.8 0.194 Aspartic Acid-Total 1.2 0.770 Glutamic Acid-Total 0.4 1.23 Glycine - Total 0.7 0.146 Histidine - Total 0.4 0.132 Isoleucine - Total 1.1 0.475 Leucine - Total 0.9 0.747 Lysine - Total 0.2 0.624 Phenylalanine-TotaI 0.6 0.239 Proline - Total 0.7 0.394 Serine - Total 0.4 0.381 Threonine - Total 0.3 0.504 Tyrosine - Total 1.3 0.209 Valine - Total 1.1 0.413
…These deficiencies constituted false, misleading or deceptive label information, and the label did not accurately reflect the composition of the product, which was thus mislabeled in violation of ORS 633.366(1 )(a)…. “
Results of Analysis – Heavy Metals (Big Bud)
[End Quote]
Element Lab Method Results Arsenic (As) EPA 3050B, 6010B 16.2 ppm 0.8 ppm Cadmium (Cd) EPA 3050B, 6010B < 5 ppm < 0.1 ppm Mercury (Hg) EPA 7471A < 0.2 ppm < 0.001 ppm Lead (Pb) EPA 3050B, 6010B 10.7 ppm <0.5 ppm Nickel (Ni) EPA 3050B, 6010B < 5 ppm 0.6 ppm
Author’s note: Looking at the ‘Results of Analysis – Heavy Metals (Big Bud)’, the HM (Heavy Metal) content found in Big Bud during independent tests is far higher than is stated by Advanced Nutrients. It is important to note that I make a recommendation in ‘contaminants in cannabis’ (www.integralhydro.com/ advancednutrients), stating that Med dispensaries and/or growers should independently test fertilizers and not take manufacturer listings as fact. This is just one example of why I make this recommendation (there are many more). Further, the results of the HM tests indicate relatively contaminated synthetic fertilizers and/or organic components were used in production.
Last edited by AzCannaMan; 07-24-2012 at 07:34 PM.
So your method here is with soil is that correct? Did you buy the PH-perfect line ?
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