New Grower. What do I need/need to know?

Originally Posted by themanwiththeplan

Everything you pretty much said is pretty incorrect unless we're playing the "exact word" game.

Idk how you grow your plants but you have to feed before the middle of flowering. thats why they make veg nutes. it is infact necessary unless you go 12/12 from clone/seed but it will still need a doses of Nitrogen which is plentiful in veg nutes. you might be able to TECHNICALLY get away with using all veg or all bloom nutes for both stages of growth but you're gonna end up with poor results. using 1 bottle of veg nutes and 1 bottle of bloom nutes is pretty much standard. the boost (ie. for example fox farm has big bloom) is optional and my opinion but not a bad idea. what you dont need is the carb boost and crap like that.

So ph problems are rare in soil and when they do happen its the growers fault? How so? What if where you live your waters pH is naturally too high or too low for? is that a "rare" problem w/ pH in soil thats the growers fault? I am FORCED to use pH down everytime i water as my tap is 7.0-7.3 on avg. If i were to give that to my plants eventually the pH would go too high in the soil.

how would that be my fault? granted he may live somewhere where the pH is perfect out of the tap but thats note everyone and he should be made aware of it instead of finding out the hard way later on? he should at least check his tap water pH. we all should. its foolish not to.

I have 6 plants that vegged for 5+ weeks in 5 gal pots. do you mean to tell me that I could have gotten away without any nutes till flowering? if i did my plants would have been spindly pieces of S**t.

This is what perpetuates all the confusion for new growers.
People that have fallen under salesmens spells, then apply a mixed jumble of soil and hydro information in their soil grow, and then under the assumption that they're doing everything right start giving advise to someone growing under different conditions than themselves.

It's going to be the op's first grow. They're on a budget. They're gonna use bag seed in 6 inch pots, not expensive seeds 5 gallon pots. Their plants will be small. Their plants will not be high yielding.
Using fresh bagged soil (even the $5 a bag Hyponex stuff which I use) and some Pearlite, and by keeping it simple, hell yeah they'll be able to make it to flowering without fertilizing.
All the while they will be avoiding nute burn, nute lockout, and all the other newbee fertilizing errors. At the very most they MIGHT experience a slight nitrogen deficiency, but that's simple to correct with an inexpensive all purpose fertilizer.

YOU DO NOT NEED ANY OF THE HIGH PRICED, MULTIPLE PART, NEED-A-CHART, FERTILIZERS UNLESS YOU'RE GROWING HYDROPONICALLY.
Do not believe the salespeople. They're supposed to 'sell' you stuff.
Everythings already in the soil. Additional nutes are only needed to supplement the soil during the grow. An intermediate level or above grower may not have to fertilize at all during their soil grow, but we won't get into that here.

A ph of 7 is neutral. If your water is coming out of the tap at 7 or there abouts, it is absolutely fine to use in soil with no adjusting. For hydro it is way too alkaline, but it's right-on for soil use.
The soil it's self will do any adjusting it needs all on it's own, (called Buffering). Unless the grower is over-doing it on additives, which is what ALWAYS happens when they unknowingly, yet deliberately over complicate things, ph should not be an issue in soil.

I'll say it again, PH should be a non-issue in soil. If you develop a ph issue in soil IT IS BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THE GROWER DID WRONG.

The simpler you can keep it the better. You don't need to spend a lot of money either. If you decide to use Fluorescent (CFL's or tubes) you can't have too much light! Keep us posted with pictures when you get started....

Originally Posted by buddifersure

1) Lights: What kind of cheap bulbs work best? I've seen a number of different posts about them but I want to know what's been shown to work best. Also, how close should they be to the plant? And let's say I'm going to grow two plants, one in each pot, how many bulbs should I use? I've read a lot about 12/12 lighting but I've also seen some other variations so help with that would be cool too.

Go with a 150wmh and 150whps, or cfls. Cfls are super cheap and you can buy bulbs from wal mart,

2) Fertilizer and soil: What kind of plant fertilizer works best? Should I even use plant fertilizer? Does it matter what kind of soil I use or can I just use dirt from the ground?

Go to a nursery and get a house mix of soil, or if you can find fox farm ocean forest, you will have an easier time. And they work great.

3) Don't really have the money or skills to build/buy a carbon scrubber so is there anything else I can do to prevent the plants from reeking too badly? It's more so the skills I don't have once it gets to the part where I have to hook up a fan. Trust me, it's just not a good idea for me. lol.

Maybe get some carbon filters out of the cat litter area or the carbon filters from small window a/c units. Or, there is activated carbon in the pet fish area, you can get creative with those easily..

4) About how fast should my plants be growing if I'm doing a halfway decent job?

after about 2 weeks, they will grow about a new shoot every other day, I'd guess. The first two weeks are dreadingly slow, then all the sudden, it seems like they double every three days in size..

5) I've established the fact that I shouldn't water every day but I've seen a few different posts about how often to actually water. So how often and how much? Also, what should the ph levels be throughout growing?

If you get happy frog (which is a soil made by fox farm) or fox farm ocean forest, it should have a very neutral ph. drop your water level to 6.5 before watering, the same with nutrient added solutions if you decide to do that. Your plants will absorb nutrients great.

Any and all good feedback is mucho appreciated. Bad feedback just makes me sad. I have not actually started growing yet because I would like to do this right and not over-do anything. Or under-do.

Thanks guys!

One other thing is i would recommend switching to larger pots, maybe at least a gallon for the plants to finish in or else you might run into a lot of root bound plants. This is all just what I would do if I were you. GL MAN!!!

Hi new grower,

I didn't feel like reading through everyones response already so i'll just add my own feedback. most of it is probably wrong anyway... lol. that seems to be a recurring theme on this site.

1. Lights - use some CFL bulbs in a simple socket. cheap, effective, easy. just watch out for heat stress from being too close to the bulbs. you'll want a fan on your plants anyway. Veg in 18/6, Flower in 12/12. Expect your plants height to roughly double when you switch to flower.

2. Soil/Fertilizer - go for some Fox Farm Light Warrior and coco chunks. got some basic nutrients in the FFLW to get the plants started, not too 'hot' (wont nutrient burn the seedlings), and the coco helps stablize the pH, enhance drainage, and provide a nesting ground for beneficial microbes. You will probably need to start supplementing your soil with nutrients after about a month. I'd recommend the General Organics GO Box. It has a nice little collection of assorted organic products for you to try, and it's only about $30. I highly recommend it. I would recommend larger pots as well, but you can always start your seedlings in the pots you have now, and transplant later. also, instead of a regular pot, use a Smart Pot. It's a breathable fabric pot that makes the roots explode! they are cheap. FFLW, $12. Coco chunks, $12. GO Box, $30. Smart Pot, $8.

3. Scent Control - If you don't have the money for a carbon scrubber, such is life. For you, I would try the ONA line of scent control products. They make an ONA Gel product that you can just place the container near a fan with the lid partially off, and it neutralizes the smell pretty well. They also have an aerosol/spray product that is similar. Cheap and effective.

4. Plant growth expectations - Soil plants can grow kind of slow compared to hydro, and there are many variables based on soil type, light type and conditions, etc.

5. Water Frequency - only water when the soil is nearly dry. this could be every day in flower, but in veg it might only be every few days. adding coco chunks into your soil mix will help with drainage so the soil isnt always saturated. you dont want to let the soil dry out completely, it will kill off the beneficial microbes. don't worry about pH. there are a ton of namby-pamby's on this site that preach pH like the second coming of jesus. but if you do an organic grow, and use something like the GO Box, you don't need to pH your water or food solution. its a waste of time. my opinion is if people are worried about pH while growing in soil, then they aren't doing something right. one final thing, check out this link -- DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes -- this is for Heisenberg's compost tea recipe. If you really want your plants to be happy, brew up some of this tea and give some to your plants. You'll thank me later.

Hope this helps... let me know if you have any questions.

cheers,
mr.bond

oh yeah, and don't use miracle gro. save that for your lawn. lol

Listen to what was said above don't have to buy super expensive stuff to start your fist is gonna be your learning curve I'm on my second and and started cheap and still going cheap with very dank results I only changed my nutes that's where I really invested my money and a ph meter and a ppm meter I highly suggest but if you would like to see how to do a good closet to grow and cheap here is a link to my thread I did for cheap growing

Poormans super closet muwahahahahahaha!!

Originally Posted by mr.bond

Hi new grower,

I didn't feel like reading through everyones response already so i'll just add my own feedback. most of it is probably wrong anyway... lol. that seems to be a recurring theme on this site.

1. Lights - use some CFL bulbs in a simple socket. cheap, effective, easy. just watch out for heat stress from being too close to the bulbs. you'll want a fan on your plants anyway. Veg in 18/6, Flower in 12/12. Expect your plants height to roughly double when you switch to flower.

2. Soil/Fertilizer - go for some Fox Farm Light Warrior and coco chunks. got some basic nutrients in the FFLW to get the plants started, not too 'hot' (wont nutrient burn the seedlings), and the coco helps stablize the pH, enhance drainage, and provide a nesting ground for beneficial microbes. You will probably need to start supplementing your soil with nutrients after about a month. I'd recommend the General Organics GO Box. It has a nice little collection of assorted organic products for you to try, and it's only about $30. I highly recommend it. I would recommend larger pots as well, but you can always start your seedlings in the pots you have now, and transplant later. also, instead of a regular pot, use a Smart Pot. It's a breathable fabric pot that makes the roots explode! they are cheap. FFLW, $12. Coco chunks, $12. GO Box, $30. Smart Pot, $8.

3. Scent Control - If you don't have the money for a carbon scrubber, such is life. For you, I would try the ONA line of scent control products. They make an ONA Gel product that you can just place the container near a fan with the lid partially off, and it neutralizes the smell pretty well. They also have an aerosol/spray product that is similar. Cheap and effective.

4. Plant growth expectations - Soil plants can grow kind of slow compared to hydro, and there are many variables based on soil type, light type and conditions, etc.

5. Water Frequency - only water when the soil is nearly dry. this could be every day in flower, but in veg it might only be every few days. adding coco chunks into your soil mix will help with drainage so the soil isnt always saturated. you dont want to let the soil dry out completely, it will kill off the beneficial microbes. don't worry about pH. there are a ton of namby-pamby's on this site that preach pH like the second coming of jesus. but if you do an organic grow, and use something like the GO Box, you don't need to pH your water or food solution. its a waste of time. my opinion is if people are worried about pH while growing in soil, then they aren't doing something right. one final thing, check out this link -- DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes -- this is for Heisenberg's compost tea recipe. If you really want your plants to be happy, brew up some of this tea and give some to your plants. You'll thank me later.

Hope this helps... let me know if you have any questions.

cheers,
mr.bond

I'm not knocking you Mr. Bond, but again, here's a perfect example of some great advise mixed in with confusion for a new grower.

The op's on a budget so people keep advising him to spend spend spend. FF products are some of the highest priced products on the market. How is any of that gonna help him?

Go box, smart pots......... unnecessary complications for new growers.

Teas? Totally inadvisable for new growers. I've seen loads of even intermediate growers screw up their grows when they mistakenly watered their plants with spoiled teas.
Before people jump all over me, YES teas can go bad. Look it up if you don't believe me.

The op's going to use soil but you're directing him to a hydro thread?????

Aah, phuck it.
I think everything I'm saying is falling on a forum full of deaf ears anyway.

Originally Posted by Rj41

This is what perpetuates all the confusion for new growers.
People that have fallen under salesmens spells, then apply a mixed jumble of soil and hydro information in their soil grow, and then under the assumption that they're doing everything right start giving advise to someone growing under different conditions than themselves.

It's going to be the op's first grow. They're on a budget. They're gonna use bag seed in 6 inch pots, not expensive seeds 5 gallon pots. Their plants will be small. Their plants will not be high yielding.
Using fresh bagged soil (even the $5 a bag Hyponex stuff which I use) and some Pearlite, and by keeping it simple, hell yeah they'll be able to make it to flowering without fertilizing.
All the while they will be avoiding nute burn, nute lockout, and all the other newbee fertilizing errors. At the very most they MIGHT experience a slight nitrogen deficiency, but that's simple to correct with an inexpensive all purpose fertilizer.

YOU DO NOT NEED ANY OF THE HIGH PRICED, MULTIPLE PART, NEED-A-CHART, FERTILIZERS UNLESS YOU'RE GROWING HYDROPONICALLY.
Do not believe the salespeople. They're supposed to 'sell' you stuff.
Everythings already in the soil. Additional nutes are only needed to supplement the soil during the grow. An intermediate level or above grower may not have to fertilize at all during their soil grow, but we won't get into that here.

A ph of 7 is neutral. If your water is coming out of the tap at 7 or there abouts, it is absolutely fine to use in soil with no adjusting. For hydro it is way too alkaline, but it's right-on for soil use.
The soil it's self will do any adjusting it needs all on it's own, (called Buffering). Unless the grower is over-doing it on additives, which is what ALWAYS happens when they unknowingly, yet deliberately over complicate things, ph should not be an issue in soil.

I'll say it again, PH should be a non-issue in soil. If you develop a ph issue in soil IT IS BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THE GROWER DID WRONG.

still not true.

he could use 6inch pots if he goes 12/12 from seed but theres no way he's growing regular beans or autos in a 6inch pot. it'll become rootbound in no time.

i hear that they are on a budget but if you can't afford good quality soil and a good 2 part nute system (veg nutes and bloom nutes) then you shouldn't be growing. I suggested Fox Farm because its n00b friendly and if you follow their feeding chart it becomes hard to mess it up.

Also im not a salesperson. im just a member of the forums. Im just suggesting quality nutes and soil that he should be able to avoid. 1.5 cu ft of ocean forest or light warrior only runs $17-20 and the nutes are about $18 each in the store. If you can't afford that to get started in growing then you probably shouldn't be growing. sure he could use dirt from outside but who's to say the plants will agree with it? it could have bugs, an incorrect pH, etc. at least if he buys light warrior or ocean forest he's gonna have quality soil that'll be bug free and pH'd to the correct level and it comes with nutes 2 aid the plant its first two weeks of life.

Sure he can skip on veg nutes and only feed when absolutely necessary but most growers grow for quality and quantity. Why not start him off on the right path from the start. I don't only feed when the plants look sad...I feed em when they look healthy. I wanna give em a boost and push them to their full potential. Theres nothing wrong with that.

I agree that ff nutes aren't the cheapest but there are other 2 part nute systems (veg and bloom nutes) that run considerably cheaper but like i said I suggested them as they are pretty n00b friendly.

I learned with ff products and while ive tried others even after all these years of growing i find myself back to the ff line.

the soil doesnt buffer itself. dolomite lime does and YOU have to put it in the soil.

Also if my tap is 7.0+ then it WILL cause a problem down the line as in soil pH should be 6.3-6.8. if i continuously pour 7.0+ tap water into my soil its going to slowly (over time) raise the pH of the soil. What would be ideal is if my tap was 6.5 then i wouldn't need pH down and everything would be dandy.

Suggesting he doesn't need a pH meter because "its rarely a problem in soil unless its the growers fault" is ridiculous and you're just setting him up for failure. I listened to someone who suggested the same as you when i first started so i didnt buy a pH meter and by the time i hit the end of my first grow i had to run down to the hydro store and get one because my pH was out of wack because my tap is too high.

Growers of soil and hydro should stay on top of their pH at all times. its a good portion of what the problems are in the plant problems area of the forum. its very important to know your pH because if you begin to shows signs of a deficiency or such its good to know if the pH is on point or too high/low as pH problems can disguise themselves as deficiencies so you could have the poor guy dumping a ton of N into the mix thinking its an N deficiency (or what not) when its really an incorrect pH level.