THC % Does Not Measure The High in the
Medical Marijuana forums; Hello All ,
New user here . Not so new grower . No old timer either .
I recently have ...
THC % Does Not Measure The High
Hello All ,
New user here . Not so new grower . No old timer either .
I recently have taken to testing my strains for THC % with a local lab . I am noticing the grows that get great user reviews do not necessarily have the highest THC % . In fact , the local favorite is coming in at 9% , which is half of my other strains !
I do not think the lab is at fault . I think there is a lot more to the quality of the high than THC % . In addition , I am starting to question the reasoning behind the commonly held notion that Sativas are always energetic and Indicas are sleepers .
There is a BBC documentary that really seems to confirm this . See YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs .
Does anybody have similar observations ?
I am trying to understand why some strains make people giggle and chat and others make people sleep . THC % is not the deciding factor . CBD ? CBN ? Other Magic Stuff ?
Thank You ,
I watched the video and saw nothing to support any reason for you to "question the reasoning behind the commonly held notion that Sativas are always energetic and Indicas are sleepers."
It has long been known that cannabinoids work in conjunction with each other, as do some terpinoids. Some work to enhance the effects of THC and others work against the effects of THC. None on their own will produce a good high.
Cannabidiol is nonpsychoactive and was initially thought to have no effect on the psycho activity of THC. More recent evidence however shows that smokers of cannabis are less likely to experience schizophrenia-like symptoms if there is a higher CBD to THC ratio. Experiments show that participants experienced less intense psychotic effects when intravenous THC was co-administered with CBD. It has been hypothesized that CBD acts as an allosteric antagonist at the CB1 receptor and thus alters the psychoactive effects of THC, resulting in a more easily manageable high.
That is what was seen in the video, what the researcher was testing for.
CBD has a greater affinity for the CB2 receptor than for the CB1 receptor, meaning that its effect is mostly in the body and not so much in the head. CBD shares a precursor with THC and is the main cannabinoid in low-THC cannabis strains like hemp.
Landrace strains, usually of indica heritage, contain higher concentrations of CBD than recreational drug strains, which are usually bred towards a higher concentration of THC. This is the reason why strains containing high ratios of CBD can be difficult to find.
Tetrahydrocannabinol, also known as delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Δ9-THC), is the primary psychoactive component found in the cannabis plant. It was first isolated by Raphael Mechoulam, Yechiel Gaoni, and Habib Edery from the Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot, Israel, in 1964.
This is the main compound that gives rise to the high that is tightly linked with the cannabis plant. It affects several areas of the brain simultaneously and can therefore give rise to an assortment of experiences, ranging from altered perception of time and the self, to feelings of euphoria and relaxation all through the body.
Medically, it appears to be analgetic, meaning that it is capable of alleviating even severe pain. It is also known to be neuroprotective, which rules out the possibility of brain damage, which was initially proposed to follow from heavy use of the plant. It has approximately equal affinity for the CB1 and CB2 receptors. By binding to CB1 receptors (the ones in brain) it produces the high that we are so familiar with. That is why the effects of THC is more cerebral, than the effect of CBD, which seems to have a greater affinity for the CB2 receptor.
THCV is the propyl homologue of THC and is similar in structure. The propyl cannabinoids have so far been found in some varieties originating from Southeast and Central parts of Asia as well as Africa, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and Nepal. What are considered some of the most potent marijuana varieties also contain propyl cannabinoids. Some examples include traditional African landrace sativas as well as pure Thai varieties and various hybrids known as Haze.
Cannabinol is the primary degradation product of THC and increases in concentration with plant age. The concentration of this product in the bud is heavily dependent on the time of harvest. Harvesting the bud at a late stage also means that the concentration of CBN in relation to THC will be higher when compared to the peak of THC production.
Also, the woman in the video kept referring to "skunk." She said "new strains of skunk." As I understand things, in Great Britain is a blanket term for any high potency pot and not actually a skunk strain. No particular strain type was referred to. Nothing that was said would be reason to question if sativas do in fact cause a more uplifting energetic head high or not or if indicas do in fact cause a more heavy narcotic body stone or not.
And when you said "sativas" I had to wonder if you meant 100% pure land-race sativas or 100% sativa crosses or like most people mean when they say sativas, a sativa/indica hybrid that is predominantly sativa but does have some indica in it so along with a head high there would be some degree of a body stone. There can be a fairly big difference between a real true land-race sativa and a sativa dominant hybrid cross, so if you did not mean a true sativa you should state that you are talking about a sativa dominant hybrid cross. The same goes for when you say indica. For anyone to formulate a valid response they would really need to know for sure just what you are talking about.
Since 1968 I have smoked mainly real sativas, and before about 1980 that was all I smoked, and I have never run across one that was indica-like, that had a heavy narcotic couchlock body stone sort of buzz to it. Not one. Not all were the same in every way, but all were energetic and uplifting and thought provoking to some degree or another.
I really cannot see where you are on to anything.
I think he's referring to the woman's reaction to the injections which could be considered indica vs sativa. Introverted and questioning things, that's how I am when smoking indica dominant strains, yet that's how she reacted with no cannabinoids. Giggly, goofy and positive, that's me on a sativa dominant strain which is how she reacted to the blend of THC and cannabinods.
Originally Posted by Brick Top
There was an article in High Times about a researcher found that peak potency levels of THC occurred when trichomes were still clear but just about to turn opaque. There have been a couple threads about it here since the issue of High Times came out.
Originally Posted by fatboyOGOF
I would like a chance to read the entire study and see what different strains were part of the research. The reason I would like to know that is I have read other research findings that said pure sativa, not sativa dominant hybrids, reached maximum potency just prior to clear trichomes turning opaque, but pure indicas reached maximum potency just prior to opaque trichomes turning amber. While I have never read it from a source I would consider to be unquestionable I would have to believe that when it comes to hybrids the prime time to harvest would be found somewhere between those two and what would dictate when a strain would hit maximum potency would be how dominant either sativa or indica genetics would be in it, or if it would be a 50/50 mix.
You are right in saying that THC is only one element in what creates a high or a stone. It takes the right combination of cannabinoids, and some terpenoids, to create a good high or stone. But that does occur within a window of opportunity while THC is at it's peak. That is when a strain will max out according to it's genetic code. Harvesting earlier or later will result in not ending up with the best a person could have. There is a longer/larger window of opportunity when growing a true sativa and it shrinks as a strain has more and more indica in it until finally being the shortest/smallest for a pure indica.
What many do is try to perform the pot grower form of alchemy. They try to bend genetics into what they want rather than what the genetics are programmed to give. If someone wants a major couch-lock they need to pick a strain that will give them a major couch-lock while their plants are still at peak potency rather than throw away THC trying to make something into something it was not intended to be.
So many growers are hung up on what's new, what the latest flavor of the month strain is, what they read a lot of other people writing about. That limits the number of strains they choose from making it less likely that they will purchase the strain, or strains, that would be best for their needs or tastes. If anyone doesn't believe that just pay a little more attention to the grow threads and the 'I just ordered these seeds' threads and you will see that the strains most people grow, not all, but most, fall into one relatively small sized group.
If more people would be open to trying more breeder's gear and different strains, in particular some older strains that won Cups, back when unlike today winning a Cup was still at least something of a true achievement because there did need to be some true merit for winning involved, they could find some great strains. Strains that could be harvested when at their peak levels of potency but still give them the other parts of a high or stone that they want. Then they could stop playing pot grower alchemist because they wouldn't need to try to bend and twist genetics from what they are into something they were never intended to be to try to end up with what they want.
I am pretty certain that having a good balance of THC and CBD is good for a nice smoke but its THC-V that really increases the power of the 'high' cannabis has alot of other molecules that make the genetic frame, and then on top of that you have to consider the colour/maturity of the Trichs upon harvest and how the cannabis is dried (preferably in the dark).... all factors how the high will unfold - STELTHY
GreenHouseSeeds has said their Great White Shark is one of their strains with the lowest THC levels, however it is a world known strain and it is used in dispensaries all over the world.. I remember reading there is OVER 60 DIFFERENT cannabanoids and we currently can only measure two, CBD and CBN... There is obviously other factors that contribute to the all around buzz achieved from each different strain that we have yet to be able to measure and properly see which strain gives off which buzz simply by looking at its test results.
I think the great white shark is 12% if i remember right, but it was said the combination of the other cannabaniods allow it to be a much more desirable buzz then many strains with higher measurable test results.....
Watching you experts chat about this is a very humbling experiance. Where would a noob go to learn about this stuff (in a noobs language)???
I know what he was referring to, but that still does not make any sense. It's been well known for a good while that a high or stone as people get from smoking either a sativa or an indica does not come from THC alone. Giving someone just pure THC and then trying to compare their reaction to different types of cannabis, sativa and indica, which would have all their cannabinoids and terpenoids, is a case of connecting dots that are not meant to connect and that if connected do not create an accurate picture, and it does not become any clearer when compared to someone's reaction when given THC and cannabinoids.
Originally Posted by homebrewer
It was not difficult to tell what he was referring to. But the basis or validity for his question about sativa and indica reactions is invalid given what it is founded on.
Again, I find myself agreeing with Bricktop. Cannabis is a complex drug. It can be a stimulant, or a depressant...and anywhere in between, depending on genetics, growing conditions and harvest time.
The vast majority of users seem to prefer "stoned" as the effect they like. that's an indica trait, and can easily occur in a strain with low thc. It will probably have a high cbd content, as cbd tends to create the "stoned" aspect of the high. Cbd is formed as thc degrades..either from over ripening, light degradation..or simply from genetics that allow degradation as the plant matures. Therefore powerful couchlock weed is often lower in thc than you'd expect.
On the other hand, i grow a thai strain that (when harvested at trichlomes " partly cloudy "..is totally head high..motivational, energetic and inspirational. I've had mine tested, and it comes in with high thc/thcv ratings and hardly any cbd/cbn. But someone looking for "pain" meds or to get "stoned" wouldn't appreciate the high. If I harvest early, at all clear trichlomes, it would keep you awake for days.
An Indica, harvested early (clear trichlomes) may mimic a Sativa high..an over ripened Sativa may be more indica like in effect.
It's such a complicated mix of components, that pharmaceutical companies CAN"T make it. They have made pharmaceutical thc..but it simply dosen't have the same effects as mother natures concoction...