Fox Farms Ocean Forest LOW pH out of the bag!!

OK, I've got some 5-week old Sour Diesels that I'm having some pH concerns with. They were planted from clone 5-1/2 weeks ago into 1 gal containers of FFOF... About 12 days ago they were transplanted into 5 gal containers of fresh FFOF.

Now I'm noticing some really low pH. My soil runoff is at pH 5.0 - 5.2 when watering with pH 7.2 water. I decided to do a semi-flush to see if I could bring it up a bit. I put maybe 3-4 gallons through and the pH came up to about 5.4 - 5.6. I have the feeling next time I water though I'll be right back where I started with pH 5.0 - 5.2 runoff.

Now I understand that runoff isn't the best indicator of soil pH. And soil pH varies by location/depth in the container. But doesn't 5.0 runoff seem pretty low!? FFOF soil is supposed to be buffered, so it should be at least above 6.0 I would think! Furthermore, if the runoff is pH 5.0, it suggests that the actual soil is possibly a bit lower to bring the pH 7.0 water down to pH 5.0 as it travels through the pot.

Now I've heard some people say they've seen similiar and it didn't cause problems. Others said that's dangerously low and they've lost plants under similiar circumstances. Someone even suggested jokingly that the makers of FFOF possibly forgot to add the buffer. What do you guys think? What should I do to try to keep pH in range since it's too late to amend soil with agri/dolo lime? Should I water with higher pH (7.5 - 8.0)? Just let it go and hope for the best? I'm really concerned because I don't want the Sour Diesel to hermie on me as it's about 1.5 weeks into flowering now...

Run off ph means dick. Are your plants happy? Are you feeding and watering correctly? ok then, why worry about it?

eh, they aren't entirely happy. the ones with the low pH are showing curled up leaf edges and some brown spots that were getting worse..

glad to hear that someone thinks runoff pH is pretty meaningless!

...myself, I'd add 1 tbls of rapid lime per gallon of soil. Top dress it, then water in as normal.
...what is your water source? RO, tap??
...have you added any kinds of chemical fertilizer to your soil?

...if you haven't added any chemicals into your soil, your ph will be fine. There is that specific quantity of H+ ions in the runoff solution, that doesn't mean that's the same quantity as what's in the soil, it's just the quantity that happened to get flushed out when you watered.

...By the way the stuff used to adjust the ph, soil grown plants hate. Your never gonna get the ph of the soil dialed in cause ph of soil will change as it dries or as the plants uses the nutrients. Water goes down faster, ph goes down. Nutrients get used faster, ph goes up.

I have cinderella and bc chronic clones in FFOF and am seeing simmiler problems. THey were planted in late january and are showing signs of ph stress. Downward drooping leaves, yellow discoloration and, wrinkly leaves around new growth. My soil meter wont give me a consistent soil reading, and the runoff is at about 5.1 as well. wish i could say i have found a solution but not yet...

trichlone fiend said:

...myself, I'd add 1 tbls of rapid lime per gallon of soil. Top dress it, then water in as normal.
...what is your water source? RO, tap??
...have you added any kinds of chemical fertilizer to your soil?

Click to expand...

Agreed. That's a good place to start, and you could even use a little more if you have too, because it neutralizes itself pretty quickly. Next time you use that soil, add some pelletized lime to the mix(a cup per bag, is what i use), and also add some more perlite too, that'll help drainage and keep the medium cleaner.

I use ph up. Any numbers in the 5 range, will lock out nutrients. Atleast it did for me. 6.3-6.8 is ideal for soil.

Cowboy: What do you mean Run off ph means dick? I thought that was the best way to determine your true soil ph?

trichlone fiend said:

...myself, I'd add 1 tbls of rapid lime per gallon of soil. Top dress it, then water in as normal.
...what is your water source? RO, tap??
...have you added any kinds of chemical fertilizer to your soil?

Click to expand...

Good advice; same goes for that about pH ups and downs - don't use em in soil. The pH up especially pollutes soil with extra ions that will cause more problems.

"Runoff pH means dick.." might be a little too strong but, yes, runoff pH's can be deceiving for the reason stated (it only measures the most mobile and available H+ ions). It's a very broad yardstick. If I have a "runoff pH" of 5.0 but my plants are good, no way do I change anything based just on that.

This is why, for me, every pot of soil I set up has dolomite added at 2tbsp per gal. The beauty of it is that it will only activate if it's needed (ie your pH is too low or dropping). If your pH is good, it will just wait until it's called upon.

Good luck.

What nutrients are you feeding the plants? If you're using Tiger Bloom it lowers the pH of your nutrient solution drastically and must be compensated for when feeding.

I stopped using Ocean Forest when they started supplying the east coast with soil from a new South Carolina manufacturing facility. I use my own little combo of BioBizz Light Mix, Fox Farms Light Warrior, High-N guano, Worm castings, perlite and granular mycorrhizae. Works better than the ocean forest ever did for me!

Jerry Garcia said:

What nutrients are you feeding the plants? If you're using Tiger Bloom it lowers the pH of your nutrient solution drastically and must be compensated for when feeding.

I stopped using Ocean Forest when they started supplying the east coast with soil from a new South Carolina manufacturing facility. I use my own little combo of BioBizz Light Mix, Fox Farms Light Warrior, High-N guano, Worm castings, perlite and granular mycorrhizae. Works better than the ocean forest ever did for me!

Click to expand...

I use TB to top off my car battery - works great.

Wow -- didn't know that about the Foxfarm in South Carolina thing. My aunt lives there ... it's an "anything goes" place as far as what industry can do. No standards whatsoever. That's why they all want to be there. That and $8 hr labor with no benefits.

A friend of hers swam in a creek near Rock Hill once and came up with an autoimmune disease it took her years to shake. Another guy got the same 6 months later from the same place - they both reported it to authorities -- big shrug of the shoulders.

macriv said:

I have cinderella and bc chronic clones in FFOF and am seeing simmiler problems. THey were planted in late january and are showing signs of ph stress. Downward drooping leaves, yellow discoloration and, wrinkly leaves around new growth. My soil meter wont give me a consistent soil reading, and the runoff is at about 5.1 as well. wish i could say i have found a solution but not yet...

Click to expand...

What is your soil pH showing as? Or at least what range? I was thinking about going to get a soil pH probe today.

Anyway, I did add extra perlite to my mix and I also added a small amount of dolomite/agricultural lime, but it was only like 5-6 tablespoons for the whole bag of soil... so negligible.

The only nutes I've used are the Humboldt Nutrient Organic line... so far they only received one feeding of Grow Natural & Bloom Natural. It was at the moderate dose (5ml/gal)... the heavy dose is 15mg/gal. So, I thought I was hitting them with a very light solution.

My best guess is that the symptoms I was seeing... leaf edges curling up and brown spots on leaves.... was due to having a high nutrient concentration in the soil. I think the low pH was OK, but I just blamed it for the symptoms I was seeing. Who knows though? I could very well be wrong. I wouldn't think one moderate feeding would be enough to give these girls nutrient-burn stress! Then again I've heard Headband and Sour Diesel are very sensitive to nutes and watering.

Thanks for all the help!!

trichlone fiend said:

...if you haven't added any chemicals into your soil, your ph will be fine. There is that specific quantity of H+ ions in the runoff solution, that doesn't mean that's the same quantity as what's in the soil, it's just the quantity that happened to get flushed out when you watered.

...By the way the stuff used to adjust the ph, soil grown plants hate. Your never gonna get the ph of the soil dialed in cause ph of soil will change as it dries or as the plants uses the nutrients. Water goes down faster, ph goes down. Nutrients get used faster, ph goes up.

Click to expand...

So pH Down is not good for soil plants!? I had no idea about this! I use such a small amount that I wouldn't think it would make much difference... all it's doing is adding H+ ions basically. I add about 1/2 tsp per gallon tops.

How should I go about lowering the pH then? My tap water is about 7.8 - 8.0 out of the tap. Even after adding the nutrients it's only about 7.5 or so (Humboldt Nutrients don't alter pH much).

^A bit of advice.....Keep right on adjusting your nutes and water with PH up/down, before you add them. That's what the stuff is for. I'm not sure what he was saying when he said they were bad for soil grows, maybe he meant they are not to be used to adjust the PH of the soil, specifically, in which I'll agree. But, it's important to have your nutes/water adjusted before using them, or you'll run into lots of PH problems.(especially if you use types of ferts that drop the PH alot)

jawbrodt said:

^A bit of advice.....Keep right on adjusting your nutes and water with PH up/down, before you add them. That's what the stuff is for. I'm not sure what he was saying when he said they were bad for soil grows, maybe he meant they are not to be used to adjust the PH of the soil, specifically, in which I'll agree. But, it's important to have your nutes/water adjusted before using them, or you'll run into lots of PH problems.(especially if you use types of ferts that drop the PH alot)

Click to expand...

Yes -- do not use pH ups/downs to adjust the soil.

Yes -- pH ups/downs are fine for water, nutes.

Kriegs said:

I use TB to top off my car battery - works great.

Wow -- didn't know that about the Foxfarm in South Carolina thing. My aunt lives there ... it's an "anything goes" place as far as what industry can do. No standards whatsoever. That's why they all want to be there. That and $8 hr labor with no benefits.

A friend of hers swam in a creek near Rock Hill once and came up with an autoimmune disease it took her years to shake. Another guy got the same 6 months later from the same place - they both reported it to authorities -- big shrug of the shoulders.

Click to expand...

LOL at the car battery...that shit would lower my pH to 4! That should tell you something about the product right there...

I've always felt that way about South Carolina...no regulations on anything...and I'm not at all surprised they f'ed up the Ocean Forest formula. I actually think it has more to do with the type of trees available--they use some cheap pine bark at the SC plant, instead of whatever high-quality stuff they use out west.

Jerry Garcia said:

LOL at the car battery...that shit would lower my pH to 4! That should tell you something about the product right there...

I've always felt that way about South Carolina...no regulations on anything...and I'm not at all surprised they f'ed up the Ocean Forest formula. I actually think it has more to do with the type of trees available--they use some cheap pine bark at the SC plant, instead of whatever high-quality stuff they use out west.

Click to expand...

Yeah, it's all fast-growing pulp wood shit. The western material is coastal douglas fir, I believe, and the trees are cut at much older ages.... so far.

The FFOF soil has been a nightmare for me. My first personal homegrow of white widow went great under 400 halide and hps lights. My second grow in the summer was a totally different deal; I purchased two new bags of FFOF and my plants began to lose leaves and the green leaves, even around the buds were dry and brown. I had to end the flowering two weeks early to save the anemic but usable buds. I thought that the problem was due to my grow box summer temps reaching 96, but the air movement was good and I was using the FF feeding schedule as before. I was also using filtered ph 6 rainwater for both grows.
I began to research and discovered the importance of the soil PH. I hadn't really givin it much thought because the previous grow was so easy.
After taking down the plants, I sent the soil to an agricultural lab in my area and they reported that the PH was 4.5! I tested the remaining FFOF soil from the bag with a digital probe and some neutral water and it read 5.5. My tap water is very hard, and after sitting to disapate chlorine, the PH reads 8.3 with a test strip. I am using this water to correct the acidity. When adding FF nutes to the water, it reads 5.5! from 8.3. You can imagine how bad the PH became adding the Nutes to PH neutral rainwater. The new plants seem to be doing well with the high ph tap water, but the soil still reads 5.5 to 5.8 in each pot. Borderline good. What gives Fox farms?

just got a bag of FFOF thinking it would help a nute lock problem and i probed the soil it read 7.0 and water run off is at 7.1 so its not just on the lower end.Had the same problem with the old soil but just a lil lower ph with FFOF. LOL lesson learned always check soil before transplanting

Kriegs said:

This is why, for me, every pot of soil I set up has dolomite added at 2tbsp per gal. The beauty of it is that it will only activate if it's needed (ie your pH is too low or dropping). If your pH is good, it will just wait until it's called upon.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

Word

Get the lime, add the lime. Not too late to top dress with some.

FFOF does add buffers, just not enough.

If a mix has peat in it, you should add lime.

Wet