Please help me! Why do my leaves look like this?

Can anyone tell me why my leaves are looking this way? and seem to have some kind of burn, but it's not nute burn. I'm in the 5th day of 12/12. Started showing signs about 1 1/2 week ago on lower leaves, so I flushed with plain water and Hygrozyme, and it spread now to other leaves. I use Sunshine Organic Mix(Soilless) the pH run off is always at 6.0, though when I feed, I feed at a pH of 6.3 . I use Dutch Master Flower Gold A&B, Dutch Master Max, Dutch Master Silica, Humboldt County's Own Snow Storm Ultra, GH Floralicious Plus, GH Liquid KoolBloom, Advanced Nutrients Bud Candy, and Fulvic Acid. As far as nute burn, I really haven't had a problem. The Pineapple Express had nute burn at it's early seedling/veg stage but since then has been corrected. As I said, their in day 5 of 12/12, and probably a total of 53-55 days from seed, and still, I haven't gone over 750 PPM's. This is my first time in soil(soilless), instead of DWC. Never saw any problems like this with my hydro. Any help would be appreciated.

I'm not sure, but this looks manganese related to me. I am looking around and its the closest thing I can find to it in my book:

Deficiency:

"Young leaves show symptoms first. They become yellow between veins (intervenial chlorosis), and the veins remain green. Symptoms spread from younger to older leaves as the deficiency progresses. Necrotic (dead) spots develop on severely affected leaves which become pale and fall off; overall plant growth is stunted, and maturation may be prolonged. Severe deficiency looks like a severe lack of magnesium."

Source: Marijauna Horticulture The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Growers Bible - Jorge Cerantez

Probably going to want to get a couple other opinions of course.

statik said:

I'm not sure, but this looks manganese related to me. I am looking around and its the closest thing I can find to it in my book:

Deficiency:

"Young leaves show symptoms first. They become yellow between veins (intervenial chlorosis), and the veins remain green. Symptoms spread from younger to older leaves as the deficiency progresses. Necrotic (dead) spots develop on severely affected leaves which become pale and fall off; overall plant growth is stunted, and maturation may be prolonged. Severe deficiency looks like a severe lack of magnesium."

Source: Marijauna Horticulture The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Growers Bible - Jorge Cerantez

Probably going to want to get a couple other opinions of course.

Click to expand...

It actually started showing signs on the bottom older fan leaves. they're gone now. But that's what the guy at the Hydro store said it was also, so I got some Botanicare CalMag Plus. I gave them that with some fresh water and some Bud Candy(for the Vitamin B and stuff, cause I fed them a few days ago. But when I was reading through some web growing guide(Amsterdam Seed Bank, if I'm not mistaken) They described it as a (K) Potassium Def. And the pic they had looked just like my leaves, so it made me think that the hydro guy was wrong. But there should be no lack of K because, between the Base nutes(A 4-0-4 / B 0-3-5), the DM Max(0.114-2-3), the Liquid KoolBloom(0-10-10), the DM Silica(0-0-2), the Bud Candy(0-0-1) and the Snow Storm Ultra(0-0-3), all are rich in K. And so no one thinks I'm burning my plants with this stuff, none of it has any effects on my PPM's. the only one's that have PPM's are the DM A&B, DM Max, Liquid KoolBloom, That's it. And I don't use any thing at full strength. Half strength on the actual Base nutes. Brother I thank u for ur quick response. I'm hoping u and the hydro guy are right. I gave them(5 gallon buckets) about about 2 gallons of fresh water(in separate watering, 15 minutes apart. About 1/2 gallon per watering), Calmag, and Bud Candy. Do u think that might help? Thanks. Lets see what others have to say

I use Dutch Master Flower Gold A&B, Dutch Master Max, Dutch Master Silica, Humboldt County's Own Snow Storm Ultra, GH Floralicious Plus, GH Liquid KoolBloom, Advanced Nutrients Bud Candy, and Fulvic Acid.

Click to expand...

More is not better. Keep it simple. You're using way too many products. Stick with the Dutch Master Gold A&B only. Your plants are lacking nitrogen and other elements because they are being outcompeted by others. Too much of one thing will reduce the intake of something else. This is why it's best to stick with the KISS philosophy, Keep it Simple Stupid Nutrient ratios are extremely important, and all these extra products do is mess that up.

PS. I just took this directly from dutchmasters website:

Please remember GOLD NUTRIENT is very powerful and you should NOT add any phosphorus boosters

Click to expand...

Like for example, the KoolBloom that you are using.

highpsi said:

More is not better. Keep it simple. You're using way too many products. Stick with the Dutch Master Gold A&B only. Your plants are lacking nitrogen and other elements because they are being outcompeted by others. Too much of one thing will reduce the intake of something else. This is why it's best to stick with the KISS philosophy, Keep it Simple Stupid Nutrient ratios are extremely important, and all these extra products do is mess that up.

PS. I just took this directly from dutchmasters website:



Like for example, the KoolBloom that you are using.

Click to expand...

My plants ARE NOT lacking N. If u look at my leaves they are a beautiful green. When u have N def, ur leaves are yellowish. Not grey! Thanks for the help though. And as far as Dutch Masters advice. I don't go by wat they say anymore. Those people are full of shyte. I have been using them for 1 year and their amount on their nutrient calculator has changed 3 times. Same PPM though. same recipe. When I wrote them an email and asked if they had changed their products, they replied no. I mentioned how the PPM's were now different, and they said that it was my meter, and that someone else had said the same thing but they wrote back apologizing because they found out that it was their meter. But if they haven't changed anything about them why do their amounts per gallon change. And I have some old nutrient calculator print outs, and they prove how it's changed. Plus they contradict themselves on how to mix thier nutes. Look it up urself. If u look up Silica or Zone it says to apply ur nutes first, then ur Silica, then any Additives, the top ALWAYS make sure Zone is last. BUT if u look on their Nutrient Calculator, it gives u different instructions. It says to add ur Silica first, then Zone(which I'm not using with my soil grow cause it's not good for soil/soilless) then MAX, then ur Nutes. When ALL places I read about nute mixing, it says to mix ur Micro's first. The guy from the Hydro store said the same. And being that the part B is what contains the Micro, that's what ur actually suppose to use first. So I don't follow their instructions. Plus my recipe is pretty close to my hydro supply guys recipe. I'd give u a link to his page but I don't think that's appropriate. Plus I used the same exact things in my last grow, in my Hydro system. Without any def! Plus I still add more things later, like gravity, and overdrive. And I didn't have a problem with that grow. The only difference between my recipe and my Hydro guy recipe is: He uses Botanicare Sweet, Big Bud, CarboLoad, Thrive Alive B-1, FloraNectar. I use in place of Sweet(which I do have, just don't use) and Carboload, FloraNectar, and Thrive Alive B-1........ BUD CANDY, Because BC has Vitamin B(a bunch of different types of V B-1. Flavanoids, and it's a carbohydrate. So I'm getting ALL that stuff in 1. Ur saying my ratio is bad. Bud ur reading all those ratios thinking their NUTES. Their Not. Just Supplements and Vitamins. Except the nutes, and Koolbloom. but that's beside the point. It's not my first grow using these products, so I stand by them. Plus I don't use them at FULL strength, of course! So my question is should I flush with clearex, or just play it out. With Hydro I would just flush and change the solution and I was golden! With this it seems the more I fix it the worst of a problem it is. For instance, I flushed with JUST fresh water 2 weeks ago and it hasn't stopped it. and now I'm reading that flushing just with fresh water is bad and can cause more of some kind of salt build up. So I went out and got some Clearex, just in case. Now I just watered them on Monday with just water and CalMag so my soil is wet, so is is safe to flush????? Thanks~♥

Ur saying my ratio is bad. Bud ur reading all those ratios thinking their NUTES. Their Not. Just Supplements and Vitamins. Except the nutes, and Koolbloom. but that's beside the point. It's not my first grow using these products, so I stand by them. Plus I don't use them at FULL strength, of course!

Click to expand...

Man, if you don't want to take my advice that's fine. But I'm telling you that you can grow healthy productive plants with nothing more than a good 2 or 3 part nutrient. You're wasting your money on "what the hydro guy recommends". Of course the guy at the hydro store is going to recommend it, he wants you to buy more products.

I'll spell it out for you, here are the NPK values of the "supplements" you are using:

Dutch master Max = 0.5-0.6-1.8
Dutch master Silica = 0-0-2
HC Snow Storm ultra = 0-0-3
GH Floralicious plus = 2-0.8-0.02
AN Bud Candy = 0-0-1

All of these products contain NPK in one form or another, especially K. It doesn't matter that you're not using full strength, it's the ratio that matters in this case. Dutch master Flower Gold B already contains plenty of K. Most of these products are not only a useless waste of money, but are a detriment to the grower, especially the newbie grower who can't figure out why he has so many problems with his plants. I understand that you've used this stuff before and never had a problem, maybe you were just lucky before, and now that luck has run out. Either way, you are spending hundreds of dollars on crap that isn't going to get you healthier plants or bigger yields, and might even cause you problems like you are presently having. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but if you talk to some of the veteran growers on this forum (Uncle Ben, Al. B. Fuct, Lucas, etc.) you'll realize that most successfull growers stick to the basics of plant needs: Water, light, air (O2 and CO2), and nutrients (NPK, and the other 13 essentials). You won't find Flavanoids, amino acids, or B vitamins in the soil in nature, so why would you need to put them in your pots. These are compounds that healthy plants produce in their tissues when they are given the basics, these compounds aren't actually pulled through the root membrane, only charged ions (nutrients) are.

Anyway, I'm not trying to criticize how you grow, just trying to point you in the right direction. As for your current problem, I can't even diagnose it because the myriad of products you are using confuses the issue. IOW, it could be a hundred different things. I say, flush well, let the pots dry out a bit, then feed with the DM gold A&B only and see how it goes. That's my advice, take it or leave it.

One thing I would agree on is that the ratios of nutrients is off or there are too much nutrients and those necrotic spots are a lockout or toxic buildup.

I mean with all those premium nutes and supplements being used how could you have a deficiency? I'm sure you are covered with that broad spectrum of products and cal-mag too which has trace nutrients added also.

I think you have too much nutrient level built up in the soil, like you said in hydro you could instantly get rid of it and change it out, but in soil it's stuck in there. But I don't think it's gonna be a major problem unless you keep pumping them with all that stuff. I know you don't use it at full strength but you are still having a salt buildup problem in my opinion because like I said how can you feed them all that stuff and still be deficient, but you did say your ppms were only at 750 right? Do you feed them every watering like hydro? You mentioned you use a soiless medium what is it exactly?

Bottom line is I know nute burn is often described as the leaf tips getting burnt first but I have seen necrotic spotting on the leaves to be a major sign of nute burn as well, even if all the leaf tips are not burning.

Your plants are lush and deep green, you're saturated with nutes, vitamins, aminos, and every other thing you could ever need. Right now I would just give them regular nutes, also salt buildup in soil can seem to have a creeper effect, like you can be over doing it and won't know it until it hits you and you're like shit what happened!

Well I hope your plants get better and let us know what you do for them and how it turns out man, peace.

Whenever I go to the supply store to buy some mylar or bat guano,etc. it totally amazes me how many products they have for sale,and most of them are so high dollar that it makes you wonder what the hell they're making all that shit from. I have been growing indoors for almost 5 years now-I've made some mistakes,and have learned lots-from trial and error and from websites like this. What I have learned more than anything is that the art of growing weed is far from rocket science,and that if you give them what they need,they can't help but grow as they should,and bless you with a great harvest of sticky buds. I grow in an organic soil mix in #10 polycans. The soil mix I use has plenty of organic ingredients,and I use nothing else other than water during the veg cycle. During flower,I add Phillipine bat guano,which is high in phosphorous,and I also use a co2 injection system. Other than that,all I add is love-I spend alot of time with my girls. I know many other growers,they all have their own ways of doing it-but I have not seen any other crop that outperforms mine in any manner. So as mentioned to you before, just follow the KISS (keep it simple stupid!) method,and Nature will take care of the rest.
Best of luck in your grow....

How can they know what your plants need? Can DutchMaster see them, no. But you can. You have way to many things going on in your feeding program. And yes it looks like either N def or lockout. During the first 2 weeks or so of flower a great deal of growth happens. The first 2 or 3 weeks of 12/12 is a TRANSITION period, not flowering. So they need to be fed accordingly.

highpsi said:

Man, if you don't want to take my advice that's fine. But I'm telling you that you can grow healthy productive plants with nothing more than a good 2 or 3 part nutrient. You're wasting your money on "what the hydro guy recommends". Of course the guy at the hydro store is going to recommend it, he wants you to buy more products.

I'll spell it out for you, here are the NPK values of the "supplements" you are using:

Dutch master Max = 0.5-0.6-1.8
Dutch master Silica = 0-0-2
HC Snow Storm ultra = 0-0-3
GH Floralicious plus = 2-0.8-0.02
AN Bud Candy = 0-0-1

All of these products contain NPK in one form or another, especially K. It doesn't matter that you're not using full strength, it's the ratio that matters in this case. Dutch master Flower Gold B already contains plenty of K. Most of these products are not only a useless waste of money, but are a detriment to the grower, especially the newbie grower who can't figure out why he has so many problems with his plants. I understand that you've used this stuff before and never had a problem, maybe you were just lucky before, and now that luck has run out. Either way, you are spending hundreds of dollars on crap that isn't going to get you healthier plants or bigger yields, and might even cause you problems like you are presently having. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but if you talk to some of the veteran growers on this forum (Uncle Ben, Al. B. Fuct, Lucas, etc.) you'll realize that most successfull growers stick to the basics of plant needs: Water, light, air (O2 and CO2), and nutrients (NPK, and the other 13 essentials). You won't find Flavanoids, amino acids, or B vitamins in the soil in nature, so why would you need to put them in your pots. These are compounds that healthy plants produce in their tissues when they are given the basics, these compounds aren't actually pulled through the root membrane, only charged ions (nutrients) are.

Anyway, I'm not trying to criticize how you grow, just trying to point you in the right direction. As for your current problem, I can't even diagnose it because the myriad of products you are using confuses the issue. IOW, it could be a hundred different things. I say, flush well, let the pots dry out a bit, then feed with the DM gold A&B only and see how it goes. That's my advice, take it or leave it.

Click to expand...

I agree with you completely!!!!!!! +rep dude And he could also foliar feed them some NITROGEN while cleaning his soil.