Hi Folks,

I have the following issues with my girls:

a) The leaves droop every day, usually near the end of the 18 hr light cycle.
b) The leves are very, very pale green, almost a lime green as opposed to a nice dark green. The mother was an outdoor grown Brainstorm, which had very dark green leaves with purple overtones and dark purple buds. (yumm...)
c) I am having some leaf loss at the bottom of the plants, yellowing, slightly papery feeling.
d) The viens/ridging in new growth almost seems like it was carved into the the leaves it is so sharp and well defined.
e) Soon after the 18 hour cycle starts the leaves perk up considerably, however they don't reach that nice flat, taunt state of a normal healthy leaf.


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Fig 1: Leaves droop near end of 18 hour light cycle. Notice how pale green the leaves are.

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Fig 2: New growth viens seem almost "etched" into the leaf.

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Fig 3: Lower leaves pale off to yellow, papery feeling, some small brownish spots.

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Fig 4: More lower leaf issue.

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Fig 5: More droopy leaves

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Fig 6: After a couple of hours into the light cycle the leaves start to perk up.


Some facts:

a) Early in the clone life I had a PH issue , too high, and obviously some lock out occoured. I flushed like crazy, than went and screwed up my nutes again and over N them! By the time I relaized this (as all of a sudden the clones threw out tons of uber dark small green leaves). I flushed again and re-nuted correctly. After this issue life was good for a while.

b) A few weeks later a Cal/Mag deficiency was identified (probably form the previous PH issue I had). This was resloved with an ongoing treatment with 30 ml of Molasses/gallon in each feed. This halted the leaf deformation and yellowing... for a while.


- Clones were taking during flowering, therefore they took a few weeks to establish and root.
- Clones have been in a SCROG veg for 3 weeks now under 600w HPS @ 18/6.
- Clones are growing in Pro/Mix.
- I use GH FloraNova Grow with Florolicious and molasses for veg.
- I use a blue lab truencheon to measure ppm's and a hanna pen to measure ph. I calibrated the PH pen to 7.0 solution.
- Temps - Steady 24 to 27 'C.
- Humidity - Steady 60 to 67 %.
- I use distilled water only (bad well water!)

My last feed was nuted at 750 ppm and mollasses aded after reaching the 750 ppm.
PH of feed was 6.0.
Run off after feeding was measured at 750-800 ppm and the ph was 7.1.

(I can't understand how the run off PH has climbed to 7.1 cause everything going into the plant is always balanced to 6.0)

Sooooo.....

Beacuse my last feed run off measured 7. 1 ph should I start to flush? And re-nute at a lower ppm?

Does this still look like a Mag or Cal dificiency, if so should I apply an epsom salt solution treatment on top of the molasses feed?

As of right now the soil is quite damp as I only fed them 2 days ago, these are still relatively small plants (12" to 16" tall) in large pots so moisture is not exactly evaporating quickly yet.... I just want to be careful not to harm the rootball in providing a corrective program.

Hopefully there is enough info enclosed to help me out. I appreciate all and any assistance...

Kayuman

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My life is like a blind discus thrower,
I'll never set any records,
But I'll sure keep the crowd on it's feet...

hard to tell under hps but they look pail and hungry, i would stop flushing them and bring up my ppm, remember just because they are small doesnt mean they arent mature. But wait and see what some other people suggest.

uuuummm ,,,,lower the ph a bit next time you water....it looks like they are hungry....but still it is hard to see what colour they really are

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Hey guys thanks for helping me with this!

Here are some photos outside the SCROG so you can really see the leaf colours (I shoulda thought of that!):

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Don't the veins look almost engraved?

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One of the yellowing bottom leaves I mentioned earlier. I don't think that I am worrying about some of these bottome leaves as it still maybe a carry over from the prior cal-mag issue, but I'm not sure really.... again I really appreciate the help!

__________________
My life is like a blind discus thrower,
I'll never set any records,
But I'll sure keep the crowd on it's feet...

The edges of the leaves are cupping up

Is the humidity high enough?

The yellowing is a nute problem. Flushing isn't a cure all, because at the same time you're flushing to remove excess N (for example), you're also starving the plant of every other nutrient. This over nuting and flushing also produces stress, or worse shock.

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"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." - Thomas Jefferson my grow

have you tried giving them some epsom salt with your nutes?

Hey Green Cross - The humidity has dipped every now and than to 60%, but for the average I would say the cab runs at 65-66%.

Also plant shock is something that I am worried about too, I want then to be happy!

I guess I'll continue to keep a close eye on them with this last round of nutes I fed 2 days ago, see how they continue to respond.

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Hi Monkeyinthemist: No I have not applied an epsom salt solution as of yet as I was already adding 30 ml of molasses with every gallon of nutes for the last couple of feeds. Do you think epsom salts in addition to molasses is a good approach or would it be overdoing it?


Much Appreciated

Kayuman

__________________
My life is like a blind discus thrower,
I'll never set any records,
But I'll sure keep the crowd on it's feet...

drop that humidity to 45%...run a fan and exhaust it if you can, your roots need to breathe and that is borderline for mold development. What doesn't make sense to me is vegging a plant with a red spectrum in 18/6 for 3 weeks.......that is why your plant has ridgid lines in the leaves, mostly not converting the complex sugars it generates while in that spectrum at such a young age. Same goes for the stem, although your particular strain may show it for a lifetime and would be considered normal. How often are you feeding? Thats another reason for the sagging I think. You'd be surprised what 6.5 pH just clear water will do for a plant throughout its life. Heres an example:

Attached Images

SNV31192.jpg (84.0 KB, 25 views)

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plants prefer a spectrum, they dont require them, it will cause no problems with the plant

Hey fureelz,

The bud pic, your saying that was gorwn with jes ph'd water? Wow!



I do have fans, 6" in line at 425 cfm on a rheostat. I cranked them up and dropped down the humidity, currently the humiduty is at 52% and still dropping. I am embarrassed to admit that I mixed up my facts and I truly thought veg humidity was suppose to be 60 - 65%!!!! I see this is not the case and certainly this may be part of the culprit.

I am vegging in the red spectrum (HPS) as this is a brand new scrog build ($$$$$ !) and quite frankly all my cash is in lights, ballasts, fans, wood, etc, etc.

The ballast I have is duel purpose so the next bit of equipement investment will be a proper MH bulb. But in the meantime as HPS is really needed for flowering this is the bulb I have.

As to three weeks veg, I am vegging into the scrog screen. As it stands right now the leaf tips are jes starting to touch the screen. As this is primarily a sativa strain, I estimate another two weeks of veg to fill the screen 50% before flipping to flower.

My feeding is every watering @ 1/4 recommened strength, increasing incrementally 50 to 100 ppm per feed. Is this still too much.

Should I feed higher strength nutes and water in between feedings instead?



Many Thanks for your help,

Kayuman

__________________
My life is like a blind discus thrower,
I'll never set any records,
But I'll sure keep the crowd on it's feet...