Plant Moisture Stress - symptoms and solutions - Page 13

Where in the hell am I? · #**121** 02-24-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Garcia

UB, thank you for your time. You entertain any question, even if the answer could be found with a minimal amount of reading/research by the individual. Much respect.

Not quite two weeks into my first grow, I have committed the cardinal sin of overwatering...though I blame it mostly on the Miracle Grow Organic potting soil I started with. Maybe with some perlite things could have been better, but it just retained too much moisture. I ditched the MG in favor of FF Ocean Forest and larger 5 1/2" square pots. They continue to produce new leaf growth every day or two, but some leaves still appear droopy.

Taking earlier advice from a thread in RIU, I purchased a $5 moisture meter from lowes, and it may have been the best thing I ever did. The plants that looked the most droopy were the ones with the highest readings on the moisture meter. As a first time grower (I prefer that term to "noob" as I have done many hours of research during these first few weeks) it is hard to determine what is wet and what is dry. Not with this cheap device. I recommend it to anyone (especially first time growers).

One of my more robust little girls has begun to develop some kind of deformation on her first set of serrated leaves. I have been administering no nutrients, only distilled water and my myriad of fluoro's and a 150w hps. Temp fluctuates, typical high 84-86, typical low 70-75. My only problem thus far has been relative humidity. It hovers at 20-25% with the lights on, and 40-50% at night. You indicated in an earlier post if they grow with a low humidity, then go with it. So I am. But just for experimentation's sake, I placed 3 plants in a humidity "tent", using wooden skewers, saran wrap, and tape to create an enclosed environment with locally increased humidity.

Anyway, the plant that developed this problem was the first girl subjugated to the tent. She was one of my strongest early seedlings and was doing just fine (until now).

The first two show the problem area, and I just now noticed another similar patch of badness developing in the second image. The last one shows the general droop discussed in the beginning (that should be corrected as the soil eventually gets dry).

Help my babies Uncle Ben!

Never blame what yer workin with! Yer the 1 who used it!

Jerry Garcia · #**122** 02-24-2009, 10:47 AM

Quote:

If the root system is healthy, I find it next to impossible to overwater. A robust root system will wick away about whatever you give it under normal circumstances, using typical potting soils. MG soil is a good soil. You need to adjust your watering schedule.

Yes, my watering was a little overzealous at first because I could not detect the moisture level around the roots--the top of the soil was quite dry and the pots seemed light, but they were still retaining moisture and not allowing the "dry" part of its wet/dry cycle. I have repotted in Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil and use the moisture meter to tell me when to water.

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For starts, I would use taller pots. Seedlings have a pretty long taproot and a taller pot also means less chance of overwatering. Also, when you upcan, sink the plant so that the first node with leafsets is just a hair above the soil line. This will insure root production the entire length of the buried "trunk" and after a week or so, they will take off like a ruptured goose.

I did this with the first upcan (from 16oz cups to the 5.5" square pots) as some had become a little stretched. I probably could have buried more of the stem though, and will do so the next time.

Also, I have 7" square pots that are considerably deeper than the current ones...the problem is limited space. Larger pots = fewer plants so until I sex them I think this is where they will stay.

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Probably stress related. Try not to read too much into it.

Easier said than done. I'll keep an eye on them.

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You don't need to use distilled water, tap is fine and unless you are absolutely certain that MG has NO nutrient charge, then you should be lightly fertilizing. Does the soil have bluish green pellets, encapsulated food?

As I said, I'm no longer using the MG soil, though it does not have any said nutrient pellets. The analysis does list small percentages of nutrients in the soil. And now I'm using FF.

And as for distilled water, is it detrimental to the plants to use this? Is tap water preferable (other than for cost reasons)?

Quote:

RH is fine if the root system is doing its job. When you upcanned, were the rootballs intact or did they fall apart?

They fell apart. But more so because I wanted less MG soil and tried to knock it off before transferring to the new soil. I think they are healthy, but maybe not hardy. They are still young.

Quote:

So much for tents.

Again, your focus should be on developing a robust root system. When you have one, you'll get this kind of vigor - Spin-Out for chemical root pruning

The tent has shown promise for another struggling lady in my garden. The first set of leaves began to significantly curl under, almost where the tips touched the stem. After two days in the tent, she continues new leaf production and just looks healthier. I'm not quite ready to abandon them yet (except for the one with the recent malady).

Quote:

What kind of light fixture and how far from the plant tops is it?

I started with a 150w hps. I now have 2 t5 ho fluoro's, 8 26w cfls, and 2 65w cfls. The hps has been moved up about 12" from the plants, and is only used supplementally for a few hours a day. The fluoro's are anywhere from 1-6" from the plant tops (as evident in the photo).

Thanks for the prompt (and detailed) response UB! You are the man!

~JG

Uncle Ben · #**123** 02-24-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Garcia

And as for distilled water, is it detrimental to the plants to use this? Is tap water preferable (other than for cost reasons)?

Not detrimental, the aggravation is just not needed.

Quote:

They fell apart.

That's what I was afraid of. You popped them out too early damaging the root system and now they're showing stress. Has nothing to do with MG soil. It's human nature to project blame where it doesn't rightfully belong, it's part of our feelings while not knowing the facts. Best example is how folks quickly blame pH of the medium, solution, water source, etc. Easy way out, not valid 99% of the time.

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But more so because I wanted less MG soil and tried to knock it off before transferring to the new soil.

If MG soil was so bad, there wouldn't be tons of it sold and used successfully on an annual basis. By knocking off the soil, you really screwed up the root system especially the sensitive root hairs which are the main engine responsible for the uptake of water and salts (plant food). You want a solid, intact rootball to pop out when upcanning. Again I have to refer you to my thread regarding the Spin-out stuff.

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The tent has shown promise for another struggling lady in my garden.

Well, since the root system has been compromised, I can see where it might be helpful now.

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The first set of leaves began to significantly curl under, almost where the tips touched the stem. After two days in the tent, she continues new leaf production and just looks healthier. I'm not quite ready to abandon them yet (except for the one with the recent malady).

Don't abandon them. Give them plenty of light without bleaching out the chlorophyll and learn how to balance all factors of plant culture. There is no one deciding factor, it is the sum of the parts.

Quote:

I started with a 150w hps. I now have 2 t5 ho fluoro's, 8 26w cfls, and 2 65w cfls. The hps has been moved up about 12" from the plants, and is only used supplementally for a few hours a day. The fluoro's are anywhere from 1-6" from the plant tops (as evident in the photo).

As an aside, a light meter that registers to 10,000 f.c. is a great investment. Not cheap, but worth it.

Quote:

Thanks for the prompt (and detailed) response UB! You are the man!

~JG

Thanks. Aint my first rodeo hombre.

Good luck,
Tio

OneHit · #**124** 02-25-2009, 12:00 PM

UB, Heres a pic of the plant. I watered yesterday about 12 hrs ago. It looks a bit better, but I cant be too sure. What can I do to fix this problem? Im 7 weeks into flowering

Jerry Garcia · #**125** 02-25-2009, 12:18 PM

Gracias amigo. If I need further advice I know where to turn.

Uncle Ben · #**126** 02-25-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Garcia

Gracias amigo. If I need further advice I know where to turn.

De nada ~

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneHit

UB, Heres a pic of the plant. I watered yesterday about 12 hrs ago. It looks a bit better, but I cant be too sure. What can I do to fix this problem? Im 7 weeks into flowering

Beats the hell outta me. Without knowing what you've been doing from day one, I can only guess. You been naughty and using too much Bloom food?

UB

OneHit · #**127** 02-25-2009, 01:10 PM

Heh, I dont think Ive been using too much nutes. I've only used nutes with every other watering, and trying to pay attention to the shade of the lower leaves.

Atleast the buds still look nice, nice and heavy too. Ive been treating all my plants the same too, only this one has the problem

widow87 · #**128** 02-27-2009, 10:00 PM

uncle ben i was wondering if u recommend that spin out product because i was thinking of giving it a try after seeing u in action i was also wondering where to find that product thanks for spreading ur knowledge of with everyone its greatly appreciated ......widow87

Chettybear · #**129** 02-27-2009, 11:41 PM

to your plant moisture stress list. thank you for that, chettybear is on vacation and im doing my best to find out what is wrong and fix it. pretty sure at this point that is is a combination of two tings. over fertilizing and possibly even over watering,but mostly the ferts. as they say. it will be a sad day if chetty is too late. but again thank you for all of your knowledge you impart to everyone. i have been studying and copying notes from you for the past two days and have alrady learned so much, i feel dumb for not listening before. but i'm learning as i go which i guess is all anyone can do. thank you so much again.
chettybear's other girl.

Uncle Ben · #**130** 02-28-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneHit

Heh, I dont think Ive been using too much nutes.

I didn't say "nutes" my friend, I said "Bloom food". It's the ratio of NPK that you need to focus on. Bookmark this, it's what everyone needs to understand but few do - nutrient antagonism - http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by widow87

uncle ben i was wondering if u recommend that spin out product because i was thinking of giving it a try after seeing u in action i was also wondering where to find that product thanks for spreading ur knowledge of with everyone its greatly appreciated ......widow87

It is probably only available to commercial ag growers now. It works great with pot and other plant material. Do a Google.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chettybear

.....i have been studying and copying notes from you for the past two days and have alrady learned so much, i feel dumb for not listening before. but i'm learning as i go which i guess is all anyone can do. thank you so much again.
chettybear's other girl.

Wow! Flattery will get you nowhere hehe. My approach is very basic, a botanical approach. If you can learn what makes a plant tick, treat cannabis like the weed it is rather than destroying its health/vigor with trendy trickery, rocket fuels and snake oils.....you'll do fine. One of my best gardens regarding growing super healthy and productive pot was my first. Plants were large, full of healthy green foliage up to the end and produced chunky big ass colas. I didn't have forum paradigms and hype to mess me up then.

Make it a great day,
UB

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