16k lumens HPS vs. CFL - Page 2

Budda_Luva · #11 06-25-2008, 03:26 PM

now that i looks at it i can see why u did alot of this

ceestyle · #12 06-25-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n00b_marijuana_grower

hey ceestyle nice reseacrh i juss got a couple questions does a 150 watt hps fit in a regular light socket????

Well, technically yes, it's a regular socket, but you need a ballast, as with any HID.

Quote:

did the HPS have its own relfector??? if so was the HPS relfector better than the aluminum???

yes, the aluminum was the reflector

Quote:

if u didnt have a HPS reflector doesnt that mean the CFL'S were closer the the aluminum than the HPS??? i cant quite put my finger on it but wouldnt that have something to do with the intensity or anytthing since the reflector was in the way it wouldnt really allow for the CANOPY effect from the aluminum as the CFL'S???

No, the CFLs were not using the aluminum reflector.

Well, parabolic reflectors DO focus light, but it only enhanced the distribution that you would get from a single light source, which is the main source of that effect.

Quote:

great, lost my train of thought... uhhh but an other thing like u said yea i could tell that is wasnt balanced cuz u were using books and steros lol shoulda bought suttin like 2 by 4 wood or w/e i unno juss my opinion ughh cant seem to rember any other questions i had but o well but damn GJ im such a fukkin pothead

it was balanced and level, at least within experimental error, I assure you.

GardensGrow · #13 07-01-2008, 05:43 PM

Kudos on a good experiment with attention to details and possible errors. I think this will come in handy for those doing a cost-benefit ratio of using multiple CFL's over a single HID. While electric cost will be higher with CFL's, yield may make up for that loss due to better spread as shown here by you.

outrunu · #14 07-01-2008, 07:30 PM

CEESTYLE,

After this experiment, and I know you don't want to turn this into a debate about what is better, but if you could choose one or the other for a small space, which would you use? I started (vegged) with CFL's, but bought the 150 for flower, figuring better coverage for less cost. Appreciate your research and effort to put this together.

ceestyle · #15 07-01-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outrunu

CEESTYLE,

After this experiment, and I know you don't want to turn this into a debate about what is better, but if you could choose one or the other for a small space, which would you use? I started (vegged) with CFL's, but bought the 150 for flower, figuring better coverage for less cost. Appreciate your research and effort to put this together.

Thanks guys.

It's really difficult to comment on that without a side-by-side. The reason that I added the HPS originally was to supplement the light that was already in there, which was sufficient for veg but not nearly what I wanted to flower.

In order to get what I thought was adequate out of just CFLs, it would be very difficult to physically cram that many bulbs in there, and then you have problems with them obstructing one another.

In other words, to compare the CFLs to the HPS is like inadequate light vs. inadequate light.

If I were forced to choose, I would probably opt for the CFLs, just because of the coverage. All the mylar in there helps them more as well, as the HPS would simply not reach the corners. A better reflector could certainly help with that, but unless you tailor your canopy with smaller, different sized plants - to even out the distance from the bulb - you're going to have part of your space that is suffering somewhat.

All of the above is based on the cabinet of 3 x 1.5'. A smaller space, say 1.5 x 1.5, would be a different story. There, you would probably go for the HPS.

outrunu · #16 07-01-2008, 07:47 PM

I'm in 2x1.5. I really think this HPS is just awesome for a cab this size. I originally wanted to flower 1-2 plants, starting 3 but got 3 ladies, so I am a little crammed but its seems to be ok. I was able to get 12 CFL'Sin my box. I used a shelf that was adjustable that it came with, a vanity and Y's. Since I have the setup I may try just cfl's next time as a comparison, but thats still a ways off. Theres photos of the setup in my journal if your at all interested, and here's a pic of the box with the HPS. Been great pickin your brain!

(BTW +rep when it lets me, I apparently haven't spread enough around...lol)

Lizard.King · #17 07-01-2008, 08:00 PM

for all your lighting needs

Quote:

Although I'm still kind of a new poster, I keep seeing a lot of the same comments--many of which are answered an Dr. Khronik's excellent El Cheapo Guide to Lighting. But there are a few things I'd like to add in regard to watts, lumens, cfl, hps, and efficiency and how much light you need. Maybe this should be stickied?

Watts have nothing to do with light or growth. Watts measure how much power a light fixture uses to produce light. You can tell how efficient a light bulb is by looking at watts. A 23 watt CFL produces as much light as a 100 watt incandescent...even though the incandescent has more watts, it's useless. See what I mean?

What you care about is light...more specifically, light energy. That's what plants use during photosynthesis/growth. Light is measured in lumens. In my experience and reading, lumen amounts per sq. ft./sq. m. look like this

2000 lumens sq. ft./21500 lumens sq. m. = Absolute minimum for growth. You won't get much from this, especially after the plant has grown a bit. Not really enough to flower well.

3000 lumens sq. ft./32250 lumens sq. m. = Pretty Good growth. Enough light for the entire light cycle, although your yields may be lower.
4000 lumens sq. ft./43000 lumens sq. m. = Very good growth. Once you pass around 3500, growth rate and ability goes up fast.

Over 5000 lumens sq. ft./53750 lumens sq. m. = Optimal growth. Dense growth in all stages.

Keep in mind that using reflectors, using mylar or having flat white walls, and keeping your lights close to your plants keep you from wasting lumens. It's not just about having light, it's about getting the light to your plants. IMO, people ofter overbuy lights. This creates more light, but the light isn't always hitting the plants. And that creates more heat and ventilation issues, which causes stress problems.

That's why it's still impossible to tell anything about growth or yield based on just lumens. A guy that has an HPS that is too far away from plants that have no walls near them and no ventilation may get poorer results than a grower with CFLs that uses reflectors and has a couple of lights under the canopy in a well-ventilated spot.

HPS lights are often said to generate more heat than CFLs. That's not really true...it's just that they are more efficient at producing light, and there's a smaller surface area on the bulb itself for the resulting heat to dissipate. That means more ventilation. But the higher amount of lumens per watt means you use less power and get greater light penetration through your canopy. Still, I'm a believer that well used CFL's can give you great grows with less ventilation and heat issues. If you're in a small to very small area (less than 4 sq. ft./.25 sq. m.), I'd consider the advantages of CFLs in that way.

But HPS is more efficient. A typical 250 watt HPS bulb/unit will produce about 27,000 lumens. I've seen people use a 250w in a 3' x 3' room and get good results. That's 9 sq. ft. which = 3000 lumens a sq. ft. (Really, a 250w HPS is better in a smaller area.) to give you an idea of the difference in efficiency of CFL vs. HPS, think of this.

23w CFL = 1600 lumens = 69.6 lumens/watt
30w CFL = 2000 lumens = 66.7 lumens/watt
40w CFL = 2600 lumens = 66.3 lumens/watt

compared to

150w HPS = 14000 lumens = 93.3 lumens/watt
250w HPS = 28000 lumens = 112 lumens/watt
400w HPS = 50000 lumens = 125 lumens/watt
600w HPS = 90000 lumens = 150 lumens/watt

So you can see that HPS is more efficient than CFL...and as you get into bigger HPS bulbs, it becomes a lot more efficient. There's also fewer hassles with multiple cords and saved money on your energy bill. If you've got a big area and/or you can deal with the heat and ventilation, HPS is the way to go in flowering. Still, I'm a believer in small HPS lights and combo HPS/CFL grows...if you've got a 2' x 2' room, you can use a 150w HPS and 4 23w CFLs from Wal-Mart and get a terrific grow with very few heat issues.

Taken off of

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moon47usaco · #18 07-02-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceestyle

Thanks.

It's what i do, man. If I didn't apply it to growing weed, I wouldn't really be a stoner, now would I?

You are a lighting designer... ??

Any way you flip it it is kool info... =]

Thanks...

ceestyle · #19 07-02-2008, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon47usaco

You are a lighting designer... ??

Any way you flip it it is kool info... =]

Thanks...

haha .. no, i'm a scientist.

moon47usaco · #20 07-02-2008, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceestyle

haha .. no, i'm a scientist.

Of what field if i may ask... =]

Quote:

2000 lumens sq. ft./21500 lumens sq. m. = Absolute minimum for growth. You won't get much from this, especially after the plant has grown a bit. Not really enough to flower well.

3000 lumens sq. ft./32250 lumens sq. m. = Pretty Good growth. Enough light for the entire light cycle, although your yields may be lower.
4000 lumens sq. ft./43000 lumens sq. m. = Very good growth. Once you pass around 3500, growth rate and ability goes up fast.

Over 5000 lumens sq. ft./53750 lumens sq. m. = Optimal growth. Dense growth in all stages.

Should that be lumens per cubic foot/cubic meter... ??

How would you get the square feet of a three dimensional growing area...??

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