SoG DWC Grow op in the
The Grow Room forums; I'm going to be keeping a photo journal of a new grow op I'm starting, based on Al B Fuct's ...
Able To Roll A Joint
Able to roll a joint
SoG DWC Grow op
I'm going to be keeping a photo journal of a new grow op I'm starting, based on Al B Fuct's SoG thread:
Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks
First and foremost, thanks Al, we're in you're debt.
I freely welcome all comments and critique's, anything that is constructive. I'll try to provide any information I may not have posted-just ask. To see the gallery of pics (only-thereby skipping all my boring commentary) as it progresses, go to:
.....or just click on 'Gallery' in the top right corner.
So let's get into it.
The first pic is at week 4 (from SEED). I'm starting here because, frankly, there wasn' much to photo before this. I started with 12 seeds (all femiminized), 10 of which germinated, in rockwool starter cubes. The beginning was in small started kit-including heat mat and humidity dome. I'm attempting to follow info gleaned from the web to insure females: DUTCH-PASSION
In this picture the motherz (to be) are the ones not in a web pot. The mothers are adjacent to their respective sisters. The middle diamond are 5 Dutch Passion (DP) White Widow (primarily Indica), the right hand 3 are DP Strawberry Cough (primarily Sativa), and the left hand 2 are Pukka Bubblegum (50/50).
System is a Deep Water Culture (DWC) with the bubblers picked up at the fish shop. Light is presently 24/7. No nutrients (nutes) as of yet. Temperature of the water is about 68 degrees...heat mat is under container. The container, by the way, is just a storage shelf bought from the local DIY center. pH is between 5.8-6.0, although I just purchased the Champs meter, and frankly, am still getting the hang of taking readings. Any help there would be appreciated. (The reading constantly changes(?))
Couple things I'm aware of, but comment if you have something useful to add.
-water source should be covered
-rockwool is getting green algae, but although unsightly, this is not harmful
-may or may not get females, even though feminized.
-wish I had done more research before seed purchase. Indicas grow best indoors.
That's about all for now.
Hope this thread will be a useful learning tool for all...me included.
Ride with me.
Last edited by RisingStock; 03-05-2008 at 08:03 PM.
good luck man! I'll check this journal.keep it green.Peace!!!
Able To Roll A Joint
Able to roll a joint
Thanks cheetah......yea, I'm super stoked about this, as I think Sea of Green (SoG) is IDEAL for indoor growers. This isn't my first op, but this is my first attempt at SoG. It just makes sense, no matter what light you have, deep foliar penetration is difficult, at best, and the lower parts of the plant are almost always under-developed and lag behind the rest of the plant. So why not just concentrate on the most productive part of the plant.
Anyway, I digress. For those of you wondering, no....a week hasn't gone by, but my first pick was a actually taken a week ago, I was just late starting this thread. So, with no that, here is week 5.
2 pictures here, first showing the general set up. As per the first post, I'm following the advice of the dutch passion peeps to try to insure as much female development as possible. Thus, in the first pic (lights_camera) you see a hydrofarm CFL grow light and a blue spectrum 'grow light' I picked up at the local DIY center. The DP site advocated more of the blue light spectrum during the VEG state to help feminization. Besides, it closest mimics Mother Nature (early spring light) anyway. Both are set on a timer to provide 18/6, as less light is also supposed to help with fem. Not shown is a standard aquarium flourescent I set on a box in front of the reservoir to bathe the plants in light. More light can never hurt!
In the 2nd pic (week 5) we see the current state of affairs. QUITE a bit of growth since last week! pH is around 5.8, water temp is about 68 (thanks to the heat mat...it's winter here). Walls are covered in mylar. Still no nutes, but thinking to begin adding a weak mixture in the next week or so. Besides, the water needs to be changed anyway. (I have spare buckets filled and sitting on a heat mat, where the water is allowed to sit for a few days (removing any possible chlorine) and perfect the pH.
In the week 5 pic you will see I put the mothers to be into their own personal rockwool cubes. It was a snug fit with a wee bit of root damage (but none to the main tap root) but I'm a little worried as stress can turn plants male-ish, but I doubt it was too severe (note to self, next time-trim the rockwool). Speaking of tap roots, you should have seen the one on the bubblegum--must be about 7 inches long already. Actually, pretty fascinating how each strain has it's own particular root development characteristics.
Anyway, on the right you see the 2 Bubblegum, in the front the 3 Strawberry Cough, and in the back the 5 White Widow. Almost to the 3rd level of leaf development, and I'm happy with what I see so far. Interesting note, one of the Straw is the tallest, while another is by far the smallest.
Any comments, suggestions, pointers are always welcome.
Thanks for tuning in .
Ride with me.
i dont understand how this is a dwc?
get some covers over that RW....algae will start to grow b/c light is hitting the medium.....
once the roots grow out of the medium light will kill your roots as well! just food for thought!
Able To Roll A Joint
Able to roll a joint
Correct me if I'm wrong, seriously....but DWC stands for Deep Water Culture, correct? Meaning the roots are totally immersed in the medium, which mine are-right?
If I've mis-named it, please let me know. But my understanding was that in a DWC, unlike flood or drip ops, the roots are always underwater and receive their oxygen via submerged pumps which aerate the water.
In later stages these plants will be moved to a separate area for the mothers, and 4 different 'staging areas' for the blooming plants, all submerged in pump-aerated, nutrient rich water. Yea?
In the future I'll have a cover, but this one time there out in the open, primarily because I'm waiting for one op to finish before I move the mothers into there own area (I have a cover, but only 8 pre-cut holes---D'oh!)
Point well taken though, LoudBlunts, water exposed to light encourages bacterial growth, but contrary to popular belief, does not kill the roots. See:
Next week or so will be covered, though.
Last edited by RisingStock; 03-05-2008 at 08:31 PM.
Hi Rs, can't promise I'll check in here often, but I thought I would make a cpl notes..
What's that floodlight lookin' character
in there? If that's incandescent (makes light with a glowing wire filament), please smash it, then put it in the bin and run the bin over with a bus. Twice. And then go apologise to the plants. About 80% of the output of an incandescent is infrared heat energy. Plants will get thin & stretchy, fall over and die with incandescents.
blue spectrum 'grow light' I picked up at the local DIY center
Yes, DWC is 'deep water culture.' You can start plants in rockwool cubes, then nest rooted clones in netpots full of pellets, allow roots to hook into the pellets and then when they emerge from the netpots, allow the roots to dangle into a constantly aerated nute solution.
If you have started in rockwool, you must treat it a bit more like a flood system than DWC until the roots are out of the netpots. You don't want to saturate or submerge your rockwool cubes, which given that you say you have algae on them, is what you've been doing. This will give you essentially overwatering problems- slow, sallow, sickly growth. Raise the netpots or lower the water level so it comes up to no higher than about 1/2" (13mm) below the bottom of the RW cubes, wetting the pellets but not the cube.
Once the roots emerge from the pots, they'll be fine in a constantly aerated solution. RW can't allow sufficient oxygen to the roots because there's no circulation of oxygenated nutes if cubes are constantly submerged or saturated.
While you can get great results from it, I have to confess that I'm not a DWC fan- it has some inherent problems in practise and usage. DWC is wholly dependent upon air pumps and stones running constantly in the nute solution. A power outage, pump failure or a clogged bubble curtain can spell the end for a lot of work in just a few hours. IMNSFHO, DWC ops should have redundant air pumps and stones- and an uninterruptible power supply, such as for a desktop PC, if you can fund it. Losing the air supply for a day would be a disaster.
Provided you can assure a full time air supply, DWC has some complexities when used for SoG. The whole point of SoG is raising a large number of small plants. That means lots of rootballs to aerate. You can use individual aerated buckets for each plant (ye olde 'bubble bucket') or attempt to dangle roots from all plants in a single, large aerated tank of nutes. The individual bucket method limits the number of plants you'll be able to put in per sq ft. The common tank method allows roots to knit together, making them immovable until harvest. You can't shift an underperforming plant into a preferred light position if you need to. The common tank method requires great attention to water levels, as well.
Yes- roots must be protected from light. In DWC, you need to lightproof whatever is holding your nute solution.
I know you said you've done DWC before, but I think it may not be best applied in SoG. Pots of some sort of absorbent media in a flood system afford greater flexibility, resilience in case of water pump failure due to water storage in the absorbent medium and portability of plants within the op, for evening out growth and maintenance jobs like pruning and spraying.
I think you may want to rethink the DWC end of this. I think you'll get more output from your available lighted space in pots of RW floc, perlite/vermiculite or Fytocell.
oh and... if you're gonna SoG, don't expect to do it with fluoros. There's an HPS in your future, you just have to work out the size, at 50W per sq ft of area you want to grow in.
Able To Roll A Joint
Able to roll a joint
Comments and responses from/ to AL.......
Hi Rs, can't promise I'll check in here often
No worries, I appreciate the comments Al.
If that's incandescent (makes light with a glowing wire filament), please smash it...
Oh snap! Done and done. Thanks
If you have started in rockwool, you must treat it a bit more like a flood system than DWC until the roots are out of the netpots....
Yea, guess I should have mentioned that. Part of the non-photographed first 4 weeks was done using Al's 'keep them moist but not soaked' method...ie, daily small waterings. That is, until the roots came out all over the rockwool (about week 4) at which point I put them in the netpots with the clay stones and situated them directly over the bubblers, but still with the water line only at the lower eigth, so as not to super saturate them.
I think you may want to rethink the DWC end of this...... an uninterruptible power supply, such as for a desktop PC......The common tank method....
Good point, especially on the power supply point. However, and not against your better advice, gonna give this a go. We'll know in a few months if it worked. I have some ideas about the common tank method, so stay tuned! But this will be a work in progress, and through trial and error I may indeed eventually opt for the flood and drain method--if I can figure it out. D'oh!
...don't expect to do it with fluoros. There's an HPS in your future..
Yess.....searching for a 1,000watt HPS at this time (and a PC power strip!). The CFL's are only for the pre-bloom (flowering) stage.
Last edited by RisingStock; 03-06-2008 at 03:20 AM.
I would never for a moment deny anyone the fun factor of puttering with a system to make it work. Innovation and creativity can be great fun. I'm often accused of McGuyvering quite a lot of my op.
Naturally, I know the SoG technique relatively well and have streamlined my system to suit. I only suggest what I do as I've come to certain conclusions based on my level of tolerance for bother vs max yield. I'm here to tell you, I'm a stoned slacker and I don't use the methods which could produce a tonne per square mm.
One of my compromises is absorbent media vs a medialess watering system ie aero, DWC. If a pump dies in my floods and I'm so slack that I didn't check for a couple of days, my plants will still be alive. Wilty, but probably not cooked.
Early on in the piece, maaaaaany years ago, I ran my op as DWC/common tank, made from a flood tray. Then I lowered the water level and added a bunch of bubble curtains and voila, it was aero. I was bitten by air pump failure and opted for pots of media and converted the trays back to flood config to prevent another catastophe at the sacrifice of greater possible output due to DWC's superior root oxygenation.
If you have the fiddling time, have at it. Hope you sort out plant portability, but with exposed roots, that won't be easy. Rotsaruck.
Starting with a 1000? Ambitious. Got 20 sq ft to light? That's what a 1000 will cover. If you are not thinking that big, go a 400 or 600.
Last edited by Al B. Fuct; 03-06-2008 at 06:23 AM.
Reason: lite size
Hi, I'm about 2 weeks into my first ever DWC grow, in fact really it's my first ever grow!
As I am now facing the possiblity of a power cut, i'm a little nervus and think I will be buy a Power back up supply ASAP.
Good luck i will keep an eye on how you get on.
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