1)plant was growing nicely (about 18 inches tall, ph was a little high, high 7's) and just this past week my roommate decided to add a 20-20-20 fert (he sprayed it on).
2)plant started to develop yellow crap
3)i thought it was b/c of fert
4)roomie thought it was b/c ph was high and the soil we were using had too many nutrients from the beginning and the acidity levels were just increasing so his logic is: this was going to happen anyways
5)I disagree with the above logic
6)we decided to transplant it (to organic soil)
7)THIS is where i think we totally totally screwed up. the transplant had me weary from the beginning, but for some reason I watered the plant right before the transplant
we transplanted it
9)we watered it immediately afterwards
10)i think ^^^^ was a HUGE mistake, because it seemed like the soil literally just froze up (dried, but REAlly dried up...weird)
10)lights are on 18/6...woke up, the plant was DROOPY as hell. like...Dead droopy looking
11)so we transplanted it again LOL.
12)tomorrow we will see if it has survived...sigh

comments please!

My Grow Big is 6-4-4


PLANT ABUSE
Heat Stress :
Look closely below, and you'll see the brown leaf edges that are indicative of heat stress. This damage looks alot like nutrient burn, except it occurs only at the tops of the plants closest to the lamps. There's only one cure for this...get the heat away from the plants, either by moving the lamps or moving the plants.

Figure 1

Nutrient Solution Burn:
There's a good chance that this leaf was subjected to nutrient solution burn. These symptoms also appear when strong nutrient solution is splashed onto the leaves under hot HID lamps, causing the leaves to burn under the solution.


Figure 2
Many hydroponic gardeners see this problem. It's the beginning of nutrient burn. It indicates that the plants have all the nutrients they can possibly use, and there's a slight excess. Back off the concentration of the nutrient solution just a touch, and the problem should disappear. Figure 4 is definitely an over-fert problem. You must flush with clear, clean water immediately to allow the roots to recover, and prevent further damage. 4


Figure 3 (left) and Figure 4 (right)
Over Watering:
The plants in figure 5 were on a continous drip system, where nutrient solution is constantly being pumped into the medium. A better way would be to periodically feed the plants, say for 1/2 hour every 2-3 hours. This would give the roots a chance to get needed air to them, and prevent root rot and other problems.
Don't be throw off by the fact that the plants in figure 5 are sitting in still water, this is actually an H2O2 solution used to try and correct the problem.


Figure 5
pH Fluctuation:
Both of these leaves in figure 6 and figure 7 are from the same plant. It could be over fertilization, but more likely it is due to the pH being off. Too high or too low a pH can lock up nutrients in the form of undisolvable salts and compounds, some of which are actually toxic to the plants.


Figure 6 (left) and Figure 7 (right)
Ozone Damage:
Ozone damage typically found near the generator. Although a rare problem, symptoms generally appear as a Mg deficiency, but the symptoms are localized to immediately around the generator.


Figure 8
NUTRIENT PROBLEMS
Root Stunting:
Root stunting is characteristic of calcium deficiency, acidity, aluminum toxicity, and copper toxicity. Some species may also show it when boron deficient. The shortened roots become thickened, the laterals become stubby, peg-like, and the whole system often discolours, brown or grey.

MOBILE ELEMENTS
Mobile elements are more likely to exhibit visual deficiencies in the older leaves, because during demand these elements will be exported to the new growth.

Nitrogen (N)
Nitrate - Ammonium is found in both inorganic and organic forms in the plant, and combines with carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and sometimes sulfur to form amino acids, amino enzymes, nucleic acids, chlorophyll, alkaloids, and purine bases. Nitrogen rates high as molecular weight proteins in plant tissue.
Plants need lots of N during vegging, but it's easy to overdo it. Added too much? Flush the soil with plain water.

Nitrogen Deficiencies:
Plants will exhibit lack of vigor, slow growth and will be weak and stunted. Quality and yield will be significantly reduced. Older leaves become yellow (chlorotic) from lack of chlorophyll. Deficient plants will exhibit uniform light green to yellow on older leaves, these leaves may die and drop.


Figure 9

As seen in figure 10 consumption of nitrogen (N) from the fan leaves during the final phase of flowing is 100% normal.


Figure 10

Nitrogen Toxicity:
Leaves are often dark green and in the early stages abundant with foliage. If excess is severe, leaves will dry and begin to fall off. Root system will remain under developed or deteriorate after time. Fruit and flower set will be inhibited or deformed.

Phosphorus (P)
Phosphorus is a component of certain enzymes and proteins, adenosine triphosphate (ATP), ribonucleic acids (RNA), deoxyribonucleic acids (DNA) and phytin. ATP is involved in various energy transfer reactions, and RNA and DNA are components of genetic information.

Phosphorus (P) deficiency:
Figure 11 is severe phosphorus (P) deficiency during flowering. Fan leaves are dark green or red/purple, and may turn yellow. Leaves may curl under, go brown and die. Small-formed buds are another main symptom.


Figure 11

Figure 12 shows Phosphorus (P) deficiency during vegatative growth. Many people mistaken this for a fungus, but look for the damage to occur near the end of leave, and leaves the color dull greyish with a very brittle texture.


Figure 12


Phosphorus (P) Toxicity:
This condition is rare and usually buffered by pH limitations. Excess phosphorus can interfere with the availability and stability of copper and zinc.

Potassium (K)
Potassium is involved in maintaining the water status of the plant and the
tugor pressure of it's cells and the opening and closing of the stomata. Lack of potassium will reduce yield and quality.

Potassium deficiency:
Older leaves are initially chlorotic but soon develop dark necrotic lesions
(dead tissue). First apparent on the tips and margins of the leaves. Stem and branches may become weak and easily broken, the plant may also stretch. The plant will become susceptible to disease and toxicity. In addition to appearing to look like iron deficiency, the tips of the leaves curl and the edges burn and die.
Potassium - Too much sodium (Na) displaces K, causing a K deficiency. Sources of high salinity are: baking soda (sodium bicarbonate "pH-up"), too much manure, and the use of water-softening filters (which should not be used). If the problem is Na, flush the soil. K can get locked up from too much Ca or ammonium nitrogen, and possibly cold weather.


Figure 13


Figure 14

Potassium (K) Toxicity:
Usually not absorbed excessively by plants. Excess potassium can aggravate the uptake of magnesium, manganese, zinc and iron and effect the availability of calcium.

Magnesium (Mg)
Magnesium is a component of the chlorophyll molecule and serves as a cofactor in most enzymes.
Magnesium (Mg) deficiency:
Magnesium deficiency will exhibit a yellowing (which may turn brown) and interveinal chlorosis beginning in the older leaves. The older leaves will be the first to develop interveinal chlorosis.
Notice how in figure 16 and 17 the leaves curl upwards like they're praying? They're praying for Mg! The tips may also twist.
This can be quickly resolved by watering with 1 tablespoon Epsom salts/gallon of water.


Figure 15


Figure 16


Figure 17

Magnesium (Mg) Toxicity:
Magnesium toxicity is rare and not generally exhibited visibly. Extreme high levels will antagonize other ions in the nutrient solution.

Zinc (Zn)
Zinc participates in chlorophyll formation and helps prevent chlorophyll destruction. Carbonic anhydrate has been found to be specifically activated by zinc.

Zinc Deficiencies:
Deficiencies appear as chlorosis in the inter-veinal areas of new leaves producing a banding appearance as seen in figure 18. This may be accompany reduction of leaf size and a shortening between internodes. Leaf margins are often distorted or wrinkled. Branch terminals of fruit will die back in severe cases.


Figure 18

thanks mogie, appreciate it.


But do you think the demise of this plant is because of the added fert? I mean, it was doing quite good before, and as soon as we added that crap, it slowly went to shit (gnarly yellow spots and mild curls)...then it full on went to shit after the transplant (dead-looking)

GOddam roommate i swear. so stubborn.

dont u think 20-20-20 is WAY too strong? im assuming grow big 6-4-4 is for flowering.

20-20-20 would seem alright if u started out with straight up organic soil (which we didnt). maybe the combination = insane over-nutes=demise?

Can't be positive without pictures but sounds like over fert. The 6-4-4 is for vegging.

You need to flush that plant.

The 20-20-20 will be great for vegging, if used in the correct amounts, and when/if the plant needs it.

When you transplant, the plant goes into shock, and needs some tender care before it starts growing again. No nutes, and maybe some vitamin B1 for transplant shock.

HTH

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20-20-20 is the ideal mix for vegging.

Ah thank you for this.

See man this plant has gone through so much BS, I think it was done for.

I brought it back up from home (going to university>apartment) and it looked droopy of course but after a couple hours of light it was chillin.

SO my roomie decides to add some 20-20-20 fert. THis plant received fert twice in the past (mircale grow crap once, got rid of that, then this 20-20-20 stuff, but that was about a month ago, before xmas).

ANyways so the plant has already had 2 diff ferts, and i really did not think (neither did my roomie) that doing fert this time would be harmful at all. I mean, it had been more than a month!

So he sprayed it on. looked fine that day.

next day...yellow spots, NASTY yellow spots...

so we did a transplant a couple days later. looked fine.

next day..totally owned. droopy as hell.

1 more transplant to try and save it...next day even more owned. so we threw it away..thank god for our 3 clones.


man im just upset because:

my roomie is so gung-ho on the fact that the soil we used for this baby had too many nutes and that led to its ultimate demise (and the ph was high 7s , had been from the start).

but i think it was over fert. i mean, it was doing AWESOME (so green, barely any deformities, almost 2 feet tall).

bah, what do you all think? i know ive stated this above but im really bummed on it

continouly transplanting couldve over-stressed it alot, bound together with the other off elements i would say it was all just too much for the little bugger.

But at least on the brighter side you know for next time eh

flush the plant.. that what i did when i over fert... also mabey dont use as much fertilizer.. and only use every second watering.. so water then next time use fert. then water the fert then water then fert and so on...

if you are folar feeding, its way to strong. mix your ferts as directed on box(maybe a little weaker) and water the soil. If you want to spray it on the plants,I would start at 1/4 strengh and slowly increase your strengh while watching for nutburn. consider organic ferts as it is harder to burn a plant and it will result in a better tasting product when done

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