Soil vs. Hydro. Soil experts please help!

A little background:

I grew in soil for my first 2 grows. They were small grows and very successful, but I've since done a lot more grows and have a lot more experience. Shit it's been at least 3 years since I've grown in soil and I can't claim that I knew what I was doing back then...

Well I constantly hear that organic TASTES better and while I don't grow for taste I've always felt this was at least to an extent bullshit. Being that I don't really have anything to prove that the 'dro is better I'm going to do a run on soil.

This will all start I would guess in about a month. I need to get my FI plants up to size and get some cuttings rooted.

I have my current 4x4 tent that will continue to be hydro until I quit growing in the summer due to heat. It has a 600w HPS and so far has worked out pretty well.

I have an 8x3 space that I will have 2x 600w lights in. I will veg and flower in this space for the next batch. It will have one side using Ebb & Flow hydroponics and AN feedings as I usually do. The other side will be organically fed soil plants from the same cuttings under the exact same lamp with all else being the same. They are in the same room.

Here's the problem....I don't proclaim to be an expert on growing in soil. I don't know what nutrients to use, I don't know what soil to use, I dont' know what mix to use.

In my previous grows I used FFOF mixed in 3 parts with Perlite, Vermiculite and FFOF. I used Foxfarms Nutrients for the base and didn't use "Bloom Enhancers" and the results were decent. As I want this to be as fair a comparison as possible, I am looking for some input to make this right.

I can figure out the size of the pots and the watering etc., but I don't want to go through this whole project only to find it wasn't really fair because I used either A) inferior nutrients) or B) the soil mixture was just really jacked up.

I'm looking for someone like Uncle Ben to walk me through this a bit and get me started on organic growing. I would hate to try it 10 years from now and I find out I've just been missin' out all along! So for quite some time I'll probably run soil AND hydro of the same strains to determine if I can tell the difference. This is an opportunity for some soil, organically grown plants to deliver and outshine Advanced Nutrients as well. I expect this project to be a whole lotta fun over this winter/spring as we prepare for the outdoor season and it gets too hot to grow inside anymore!

I don't generally like to "beg" for information and I know I can find it out there as far as soil mixtures, but I don't want to hear claims of foul play so I'd like to spend the next 30 days or so while I get my shit in order to learn as much as possible about growin' organically.

If someone has some literature they can point me to or some way to drop some education on me, I would certainlly appreciate it.

I know that subcool's super soil is good shit, but I live in an apartment and it's difficult to find a discreet place to mix soil so please try to keep that in mind. Making a huge mess isn't a realistic option.

Thansk for playing and I'm hoping for some good input here.

I'll keep any eye on this. I do soil but.. I'm leaning back twards coco. My money is on the hydro. Science for the WIN!

hey laser.. i am far from an expert with soil, so i will withhold any opinions and allow the real experts to shed the light of thier wisdom on you.. anyhoo.. i just wanted to wish you the best of luck in your expirement.. i too have always read about the benefits of organically grown ganja and how it tastes soo much better, blah blah blah, lol.. so i am very interested in what you are planning on doing here, so i think it would be awesome if you started a thread once you get this thing off of the ground, so that all of us who have always heard the same things can find out the truth..
i wish you the best in your expirements, and would love to see some updates..

racerboy71 said:

hey laser.. i am far from an expert with soil, so i will withhold any opinions and allow the real experts to shed the light of thier wisdom on you.. anyhoo.. i just wanted to wish you the best of luck in your expirement.. i too have always read about the benefits of organically grown ganja and how it tastes soo much better, blah blah blah, lol.. so i am very interested in what you are planning on doing here, so i think it would be awesome if you started a thread once you get this thing off of the ground, so that all of us who have always heard the same things can find out the truth..
i wish you the best in your expirements, and would love to see some updates..

Click to expand...

When this gets underway I'll be sure to give updates and keep a new thread going. I'll make sure to put a link in this thread so if you are 'scribed to this one you'll receive the link to the actual growing thread when it starts. I suspect it will be interesting and a very active thread. I will probably do a lot detailing and write up an article when it's all done.

If the soil side should fail or suffer from my incompetence (hopefully with some help that won't happen) then I'll run it again. I will run it over and over until I'm confident that I have a fair comparison and I didn't interfere with the results.

During the summer if this is successful and I like the results I hope to do an LED vs. HPS the same way. I got an offer to receive some LED equipment at no risk (meaning I can return them if they don't perform) and I'll probably seek that out heavily during the summer when it's warmer and unrealistic to really run 1800w of HPS lighting for me.

I think you were already on the right track with your soil mix. I used to grow soil exclusively and recently switched over to hempy buckets due to plant limits where I live. I used 50% Sunshine mix #1 & 50% perlite. As far as organic nutrients - i dunno. I used the GH Flora Nova 2 part system for grow & bloom and used only mollasses for bloom enhancer with good results but I don't think the "ORGANIC Growers" would have approved.

im watchin this also. im a dirt farmer wondering if missin the hydro boat. xclnt thread + reps

Little Tommy said:

I think you were already on the right track with your soil mix. I used to grow soil exclusively and recently switched over to hempy buckets due to plant limits where I live. I used 50% Sunshine mix #1 & 50% perlite. As far as organic nutrients - i dunno. I used the GH Flora Nova 2 part system for grow & bloom and used only mollasses for bloom enhancer with good results but I don't think the "ORGANIC Growers" would have approved.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm not sure if that counts as "organic" either. Basically I'm looking for RIU to tell me what to do here. If that soil mixes pleases everyone and we all agree it would be fair, then I'll go ahead and use the FFOF w/ Vermiculite and Perlite again. I didn't have any problems with it and found the mixture to be quite forgiving.

...Fox Farm Happy Frog for the young ones, and FFOF...does wonders.
...molasses, bat guano, and kelp (norwegian kelp) as a tea for bloom...any help?

...here is a thread I posted not long ago with some responses that may help ya out here:
https://www.rollitup.org/organics/264274-i-think-im-done-chemicals.html

if you really wanna do organic right you need to figure out what npk you would want at that stage and then get that with a mix of AS MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF POOP as you can possibly get a hold of. and then make tea. with a pump and airstone. you want the variety because different animals have different microbacteria in their digestive systems. also i have seen this done with a strain called nice wreck(mr.nice*trainwreck). the hydro was prettier, and the taste was almost the same BUT the soil had like an extra undertone of coffee flavor underneath the fruity muskiness they both shared, it was noticeable but they both tasted great. and remember you can also grow in hydro using these teas but omit molasses it has caused me some problems in hydro. you might also consider mushroom compost as your base soil, it's pretty neutral so don't use lime.

strain stalker said:

...here is a thread I posted not long ago with some responses that may help ya out here:
https://www.rollitup.org/organics/264274-i-think-im-done-chemicals.html

Click to expand...

Thanks,

I will take a look at the thread in just a moment. I'm fully expecting people to chime in and tell me to create various teas, but with my limited knowledge it makes me a little nervous.

Bring on the info people, I love to read and learn so I'm not scurred, I just know that I have to watch out for misinformation and "play the game" all over again to determine what's best. I tend to want to follow where Uncle Ben leads me because when it comes to organics he seems to know his shit and everyone respects what he has to say.

Manures N P K Rabbit manure 2.4 1.4 0.6 Cow manure 0.6 0.2 0.5 Steer manure 0.7 0.3 0.4 Chicken manure 1.1 0.8 0.5 Horse manure 0.7 0.3 0.6 Duck manure 0.6 1.4 0.5 Sheep manure 0.7 0.3 0.9 Worm castings 0.5 0.5 0.3

use a little greensand in your original mix as well as you can see potassium is harder to come by in manures, and i don't really need to post the npk's of guano but that should also be included.

valjean said:

use a little greensand in your original mix as well as you can see potassium is harder to come by in manures, and i don't really need to post the npk's of guano but that should also be included.

Click to expand...

Seeing as how I'm not a farmer where can I find this stuff? Nobody has a sysetm they'd like to see compared to my hydro setup? No secret formulations you think really kick ass? I can always go buy Fox Farms and run with it, I just want to give this the best run at it sorta speak.

most nurseries stock greensand, along with alfalfa meal (3-1-1), kelp, and everything else i mentioned except guano's which any decent hydro shop should have and some of the manure like rabbit, horse, chicken and pig which you could find at a farm supply store, or if you know anyone who has a farm. they key is variety, and if you are an experienced hydro grower and this is your first soil grow, i would consider it an interesting indicative experiment, but not definative.

would you like my veg and/or flower tea recipe? it's really a simple process.

valjean said:

most nurseries stock greensand, along with alfalfa meal (3-1-1), kelp, and everything else i mentioned except guano's which any decent hydro shop should have and some of the manure like rabbit, horse, chicken and pig which you could find at a farm supply store, or if you know anyone who has a farm. they key is variety, and if you are an experienced hydro grower and this is your first soil grow, i would consider it an interesting indicative experiment, but not definative.

would you like my veg and/or flower tea recipe? it's really a simple process.

Click to expand...

That's what I'm looking for otherwise I'll probably have to resort to just using organic based fertilizers like Tiger Bloom or the AN line of organics and I know you guys won't want to see that.

It's not my first run with soil, but I'm no expert at it so I agree it will be difficult to call this a definitive experiment. I have some friends who grow strong in soil and I can always consult with them on which way to go. I'm really thinking it'll start as simple as using FF Happy Frog to start the clones and I'll transplant into a 3 part mix of FFOF, Perlite and Vermiculite. That should get through veg without any problem. Then I'll look into any good floewring formulations out there that are organic and try to determine what I think is best. I can't claim I'll nail it the first time, but if it fails, I'll run it again and again until I get it right.

Go with FFOF and pure Ph'd water until the last 4 weeks - start feedin' slow and then give 'em a bang at the end of three weeks and flush for the last week. No water last few days, turn off the lights 48-72 and then chop it baby! Yummmmmmm-uh-E!

Sativa beleevah

-help others before you help yourself-

giantart said:

Go with FFOF and pure Ph'd water until the last 4 weeks - start feedin' slow and then give 'em a bang at the end of three weeks and flush for the last week. No water last few days, turn off the lights 48-72 and then chop it baby! Yummmmmmm-uh-E!

Sativa beleevah

-help others before you help yourself-

Click to expand...

I've really liked using Advanced Nutrients Iguana Juice Grow and Bloom, but the Mother Earth line is good too.

IMHO

this is for 2.5 gallons of water,

4 tblsp worm castings
1 tblsp high p guano
1 tblsp seabird guano
1/2 cup alfalfa meal
1 oz molasses
1 oz liquid kelp

put all the poop in a stocking or cheesecloth and set an airstone in the bucket with it for three nights it is only good for a day unless you pastuerize it.
it will get really bubbly, it is essentially 10-20-12, i use greensand in the original soil mix to make up for low k, it is water soluble so theoretically could be included in tea but it's slow release so i just mix it in. also if you can get other manures, add in small doses but watch the overall npk, for instance rabbit is my favorite. i don't use it now cause i moved and i used get rabbit manure from my brother, for flower i would only add 1/4 cup to get the microbacteria specific to rabbit poop, in veg i would use twice, or quadruple that depending on plant size/demands. i've never used ff but it gets a good rap if its got good texture you'll be fine.

valjean said:

this is for 2.5 gallons of water,

4 tblsp worm castings
1 tblsp high p guano
1 tblsp seabird guano
1/2 cup alfalfa meal
1 oz molasses
1 oz liquid kelp

put all the poop in a stocking or cheesecloth and set an airstone in the bucket with it for three nights it is only good for a day unless you pastuerize it.
it will get really bubbly, it is essentially 10-20-12, i use greensand in the original soil mix to make up for low k, it is water soluble so theoretically could be included in tea but it's slow release so i just mix it in. also if you can get other manures, add in small doses but watch the overall npk, for instance rabbit is my favorite. i don't use it now cause i moved and i used get rabbit manure from my brother, for flower i would only add 1/4 cup to get the microbacteria specific to rabbit poop, in veg i would use twice, or quadruple that depending on plant size/demands. i've never used ff but it gets a good rap if its got good texture you'll be fine.

Click to expand...

That's all a bit too stanky for me, I think I'll go with foxfarms nutes and call it a day.