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Old 05-27-2009, 05:41 PM
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Default TEN 400watt HPS or FOUR 1000watters or
Edit*
which set up would be able to be used most efficiently, any thoughts would be welcome.

From my experience sog's seem to yeild the best (not including vertical gardens)

Im leaning towards the ten, 400 watters, just because I figure you could cover more area with a sog.


thanks guys

peace in

Also Im a bit confused as to how multiple lights contribute, I looked through the threads here and seemed to find conflicting info.

on another site I found this


"Originally Posted by Dewave
(3) 400 watt lights do NOT equal 1200 watts of growing power, it is simply 400 watts from different angles and you get more lighter buds. Or say 40,000 lumens from different angles.

The same with (2) 600 watt lights, it does NOT equal 1200 watts, At 90,000 lumens it is still 2 sources of light at 2 different angles. And fatter buds

Now a 1000 watt light at 140,000 lumens gets the fattest buds.

So adding more lights will get more coverage but not necessarily more penetration or more bud weight like a 1000 watt does.

Total lumen output from a single source is what you are looking for.

Two sources of lumen output equals just that, 2 sources from different angles, they are no stronger but yet come from different angles.

I have seen penetration described as LUX, as opposed to the more common description of light quanity, LUMENS.
the coverage area of each bulb, is best described as a radius from the bulb, 1000w gives 53 inch radius, 600w gives a 33 inch radius and 400w gives a 22 inch radius. that pretty much describes the penetration as well. anything beyond the radius wont get enough light to develop fully.

A light mover can expand the coverage area on the same plane it moves on, ie horizontal, vertical, circular. Adding another light, if in the same plane wont increase the penetration, but can spread the area horizontally. If you can place another light lower in the canopy, or from below you can increase the vertical area. If you place a light mover below, moving horizontally, you can increase both vertical and horizontal coverage. If you could make a circular light mover, you could maximize your coverage area."


Then I found this as well..


Quote:
Originally Posted by ceestyle View Post
1. What is light?

Light is electromagnetic radiation, and may be interpreted as either a wave or a particle: thus the phrase wave/particle duality. It exhibits phenomena that may be explained by its wavelike characteristics - interference, for example - while also demonstrating some that are best explained by its particle-like properties - such as the photoelectric effect.

Treating light like a particle, a light source emits many light particles called photons. These are distinguishable by ONE unique property - their energy. When treating light like a wave, this is referred to as the wavelength, and is visible to us as a difference in color.

The main point is this: photons of the same energy (wavelength, color) from different sources, for example MH, HPS, CFL, T5, etc. are THE SAME.

2. What is light intensity?

Light intensity is simply the flux of photons per unit area per unit time. More photons means increased intensity. That's it.

3. What do lumens, lux, and foot-candles mean?

*Lumen:

This is the unit that defines "luminous flux", which is "radiant flux" (energy emission) adjusted for the sensitivity of the human eye. In the context of a light bulb, it is a measure of the total number of photons being emitted by the bulb (summed over all directions), adjusted for the sensitivity of the human eye to different photon energies.

What this means is that different colors are weighted differently according to a "luminosity function" that describes the sensitivity of our eyes. You can see this function and a more detailed description here.

*Lux, foot-candles:

The lux is simply defined as the number of lumens per second incident upon one square meter. In other words, it is the number of photons striking a finite area per unit time, weighted by the luminosity function described above.

The foot-candle is a derivative unit that is equal to 10.76 lux. It was defined based on the square foot, so the conversion is simply based on an area conversion.

4. What does this mean when using multiple light sources?

So we've established that lux are the number of photons striking a unit area per unit time, weighted by a luminosity function.

We've also established that photons from the same light source are indistinguishable, as long as they have the same energy/wavelength/color.

What this means is that if you put two lights the same distance from a point, and each light provides N photons per unit area at the point, with two lights you will have 2N photons per unit area at the point. Because intensity is a measure of the number of photons per unit area, the light is twice as intense, whatever unit you choose to use. Twice the lumens, twice the lux, twice the footcandles.

An obvious practical caveat to this point comes when using multiple low-intensity light sources. Notice how I stated that the lights were at the same distance? A practical problem with CFLs, for example, is that while you can get 27000 lumens from 10 x 42W CFLs, it's difficult to get them close enough to make them useful. If you have them in a line, for example, as I've shown below, each successive light is further from the meter, and the effective increase will be reduced. They still add, but according to the 1/d^2 rule, so having a bulb 2cm farther away will yield diminishing returns. On the other hand, this can be an effective way of distributing light, whereas with HID you need to distribute the plants around your single point light source.

5. Seriously? Prove it.

Here is a simple experiment that demonstrates this point. Below are some 42W bulbs that are a part of a flowering cabinet. I have suspended it from some pots for the sake of this experiment. You can see there is also a 150W HPS in there; I'll do some HID vs. CFL comparisons at some point as well.

The point is simple. Lights that are equidistant from a point contribute additively.

Ambient light = 0



1 x 42W = 6500 ftc ~ 65000 lux



2 x 42W = 13100 ftc ~ 131000 lux



Any questions?

More examples and experiments to come.

Much love & many thanks

Last edited by MediMary; 05-27-2009 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 05-27-2009, 05:49 PM
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Look into the 600 watters
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Old 05-27-2009, 05:52 PM
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Is this even a serious question?
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Old 05-27-2009, 05:56 PM
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6 600 watts would be a lot better than 4 x 1000 i think
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownOnWax View Post
Is this even a serious question?
Howzit DownOnWax..
yea totally serious question..My first system was a 1000 sun system, and since then I have never used anything smaller than a 1000k, I dont have any experience with smaller bulbs other than seeing other peoples grows on here.. The reason I orignally got the 1000k was I wanted to grow big plants, I started growing big plants, but Have found I do much better with smaller plants in a Sog type setup..
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:17 PM
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the ten 400 watt lights with cool tubes and digi ballasts would be 2,200.00
Four 1000 watt lights with cool tubes and digi ballasts would be 1,600.00

so def cheaper getting the 4 thousands..
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:26 PM
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i would go with the 400's.....imo
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:48 PM
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Iheard that for the price of killawat hours and electricity to lumens ratio 600 watt ballasts are the better value.who cares how much cheaper the balasts them selves are .Using 600watt ballasts will save hundreds of dollars a month.another cost efective venture is light movers .with light tracks you would need half the bulbs to light the same area with half the labor of turning 200or300 plants
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:59 PM
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light movers are good, although I wouldnt say you can light twice the area, plus it takes, id say another week or more to reach full maturity when using movers, plus with air cooled lights running its sorta a pain to use light movers... id say the increase yield is about 15-20 percent(which def is great)IMHO
Although I read where FDD said light movers are deceiving because when you take light from one area of the garden, the other part of the garden is without it..
thats off subject anyways .. thanks for the input though = )

Last edited by MediMary; 05-27-2009 at 07:01 PM..
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Old 05-27-2009, 08:49 PM
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Well maybe I can still change your mind.I also have had the problem of slow growth because of the light being so far away .so I used liquid light.Im not saying that it does everything that their selling.but I grew a 36plant grow under a1000wat hortilux eye and a 6foot light mover.the growth was the same as without the mover when I used the liquid light.
 

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