The Great Debate: 600w or 1000w?

Paola · #1 05-15-2007, 08:06 PM

My flowering room will span about an 8' x 8' area. My original thought was to use a dual 600w setup. I would purchase a dual system that includes two 600w HPS lamp fixtures and one ballast that supports 1200w. These two lamps would be on a light mover to span the area back and forth. My first concern with the light mover is that somehow the plans won't get the light they need when the lamps have moved to the other end of the area. Sure, the lights move back but I don't trust it unless I hear from some experienced growers that it indeed does work and the plants will be ok. Are the two 600w lamps going to be enough with a light mover to deliver the necessary lighting for a Sea of Green setup in an 8' x 8' area or would I need two 1000w lamps? I will be delivering only light to the tops of the plants and trimming the bottom 1/3.

mogie · #2 05-15-2007, 08:09 PM

Light movers are mechanical devices that, as the name implies, move an HID in a fixed pattern over a garden. A light mover can increase the coverage of a light by 140%. The real advantage is MUCH more light is available to the plants when the light is in motion. With a stationary light all that is shaded will remain in the shade, but with a mover the light will hit from different angles giving better coverage.

Light movers are found in 2 configurations: spinning arms (kind of like a ceiling fan) and along a rail that moves back and forth. The rail version seems to be much more popular with Overgrowers, probably because it will accommodate an air cooled fixture.

Light rails come in a variety of lengths, but most can be cut to fit any application. Most growers prefer a "smart rail", that is, one that pauses at each end of the rail for a period.

The biggest problem with air cooling a light on a mover seems to be dealing with air duct slack. Apparently, if the light is close to the tops of the plants, the duct may be dragged through the plants, thereby damaging them. Overgrow poster Ferret devised a solution: Use a curtain track, not a rod but the track that has all the little hangers inside that slides very easily. I screwed this to the ceiling of room and used light weight string to attach the air pipe to the little hangers in the track.
As the light moved the track hangers moved along with the air pipe stopping the air ducting from dragging over your plant tops doing damage.
The track cost about $15-$20 at any hardware or store. Simple to set up and it works .

rsupload · #3 05-15-2007, 08:10 PM

I would go with the 1000w...the 600w will not reach the bottom sections of the plants like the 1000w would IMO.

rsupload · #4 05-15-2007, 08:13 PM

Oh..I'm not at all experienced...its just from the research I have done...you will want some of the masters on here to answer for sure

Paola · #5 05-15-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mogie

Light movers are mechanical devices that, as the name implies, move an HID in a fixed pattern over a garden. A light mover can increase the coverage of a light by 140%. The real advantage is MUCH more light is available to the plants when the light is in motion. With a stationary light all that is shaded will remain in the shade, but with a mover the light will hit from different angles giving better coverage.

Light movers are found in 2 configurations: spinning arms (kind of like a ceiling fan) and along a rail that moves back and forth. The rail version seems to be much more popular with Overgrowers, probably because it will accommodate an air cooled fixture.

Light rails come in a variety of lengths, but most can be cut to fit any application. Most growers prefer a "smart rail", that is, one that pauses at each end of the rail for a period.

The biggest problem with air cooling a light on a mover seems to be dealing with air duct slack. Apparently, if the light is close to the tops of the plants, the duct may be dragged through the plants, thereby damaging them. Overgrow poster Ferret devised a solution: Use a curtain track, not a rod but the track that has all the little hangers inside that slides very easily. I screwed this to the ceiling of room and used light weight string to attach the air pipe to the little hangers in the track.
As the light moved the track hangers moved along with the air pipe stopping the air ducting from dragging over your plant tops doing damage.
The track cost about $15-$20 at any hardware or store. Simple to set up and it works .

Thank you. Good info.

Paola · #6 05-15-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsupload

Oh..I'm not at all experienced...its just from the research I have done...you will want some of the masters on here to answer for sure

I don't need light at the bottom as I will be using the SoG method and removing the lower 1/3 portions of the plant. I am focusing all light and energy on the tops of the plants.

potroast · #7 05-16-2007, 12:35 AM

What you didn't say was how much of the space is your canopy. You'll need some room to work in there. And your hood will light an area 4-5 feet wide. So say you grow in a 5x8 area, or 40 sqft.

Basically, you need to figure your light needs over your canopy area. An easy way is to use watts/sqft. and shoot for at least 50 w/sqft. With your mover, 40 w/sqft would be the equivalent. So you would need 1600 watts on a mover, or 2000 watts stationary, as a general guideline.

HTH

sk3tch3 · #8 05-16-2007, 12:50 AM

1000watts at 140000 lumens apprx and 600watts at 90000 apprx. 1000watts disperse a tramendous amount of heat and thus need to be high above the canopy to not burn the plants. the further the light the less lumens are acctually getting to the plant. at 2 feet away you greatly decrease the penatration of the thousie, the 600watt on the other hane aircooled will enable you to get the light way closer to the plants thus maxamizing on lumen effenciency. @ 600watts with way less power drawn then the thousie and comparible penatration seems to be the effecient choice for a SOG. also Harmonious flow should answer the other question

Quote:

Originally Posted by sk3tch3

is it better to have a rotating garden like in a omega? and why. what are the advantages, if any, of the rotation or "orbitropism". if it is worth the effort, i have ideas on how to make your octagon/colesium spin!

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarmoniousFlow

yes! the rotating sideways garden is the best.
think of it this way... phototropism the plant grows towards light, there are hormones that go to the shaded side to make it grow faster, which is why it bends towards the light.
gravitropism where it grows up is the same thing, such as scrog, the plant is trying to grow up and towards the light at the same time, more hormones.
the plants moving around the light lean and move all over the place which hormones are everywhere and the plant is leaning this way getting light here then leaning the other way getting light on the other side, just like a light mover only the light is always right there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sk3tch3

so the increased hormone levels resulting from the constant movement should be worth it, like for people who root then flower skipping veg all together? effecient i'd say. im glad those smart kids that i used to copy off of in science amounted to something beneficial for me, and man kind too i guess! any way i have an old fan that i will take apart and fasion a belt to. build a carasel (spl?) im assuming lower speeds, like 6 rpm's? wow this is great. looking at omega gardens and drooling on my monitor gets old. being the diy type im glad to see where there is a will there is a way along with idea sharing, this shouldnt be that hard. care to update us on the trial version you got going on?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarmoniousFlow

you want a complete rotation every 50 minutes... even though im about to make another one of these octagons i already want to make an rotary garden!

taken from The Octagon

Paola · #9 05-16-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sk3tch3

1000watts at 140000 lumens apprx and 600watts at 90000 apprx. 1000watts disperse a tramendous amount of heat and thus need to be high above the canopy to not burn the plants. the further the light the less lumens are acctually getting to the plant. at 2 feet away you greatly decrease the penatration of the thousie, the 600watt on the other hane aircooled will enable you to get the light way closer to the plants thus maxamizing on lumen effenciency. @ 600watts with way less power drawn then the thousie and comparible penatration seems to be the effecient choice for a SOG. also Harmonious flow should answer the other question

taken from The Octagon

Impressive octagon. Thanks for the info. With a light mover you can get the light closer to the canopy since the light will not be stationed in one area. That is why I am debating the 1000w or 600w. Sure, you'll always be able to get a 600 closer but I was trying to decide if with the light mover and air cooling on the 1000 could I get it close enough to have more benefits that the 600?

babygro · #10 05-16-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paola

Are the two 600w lamps going to be enough with a light mover to deliver the necessary lighting for a Sea of Green setup in an 8' x 8' area or would I need two 1000w lamps?

2 x 600'w would be better in that area than 2 x 1000's in my opinion. The 600w, particularly one on a digital ballast doesn't outout that much less light than a 1000w HID and it can be used lower to the plant canopy plus you'll save 800w of electricity with the 2 600w's.