Ganzy, I truly feel sorry for you. You've made a fool of yourself already, and to keep insisting that your ass backwards info is correct, well, you simply continue to do so. To resort to meaningless and childish name calling speaks volumes about your character, as well as your so called education. Your logic concerning morphine is astonishingly intelligent. You seem to know as little about addiction as you do about opiates. Educate myself? Believe me, I have. You have a degree in "THIS" ?? You've spent your life studying the chemical makeup of Tussionex? Incredible. You were wrong before, and you're wrong now. Is that so hard to come to terms with? If you're struggling with an addiction, as I did for many years, don't hesitate to reach out. Just stop with the vacant and immature attacks, as well as the hateful generalizations about addicts. I'd be happy to have an adult conversation with you. There's no reason to have such anger towards me. I've explained what I was, and what I am. You have not. You began this absurd back and forth with your inane comments. I look forward to you posting again; just be honest about WHAT you are, WHO you are, and WHAT YOU KNOW.

I received a degree in Biochemistry at the University of Texas, and I dont think that I was given a wrongful education at a reputable university...I dont see how you can possibly argue with what I posted off of the company's website? I really just don't understand how theres even an arguement here? I'm stating facts. I realize that some people have different opinions about how dangerous morphine is, but in my opinion it is very safe when used correctly. I'd be interested to hear some one disagree with anything I've said in my posts cause I havent met one educated person that disagrees with me yet.

__________________
for the record everything i say under this account and or on these forums, is false and or fictional, and in no way shape or form represent me and or real life.

Enough man. PLEASE. Stop wasting my time. Did you bother to even read my previous posts? This is absurd. You have a degree in biochemistry. That's wonderful - be proud. But to not know the difference between Codeine and Hydrocodone, as the chemist you claim to be, is somewhat silly. As I said, in my previous 18 posts, there is NO CODEINE IN TUSSIONEX. THERE IS NO ANTI-NAUSEA drug either. This is not a semantic argument; you're just incorrect. You keep referring to what you posted from their website, but you either haven't read it, or are indeed as uneducated as you keep insisting that I am. Hydrocodone/Antihistamine. End of story.

As far as morphine being "safe when used correctly"... umm... Yeah, Ganzy. You're correct for once. In fact, there a very few opiates that are LESS safe than morphine "when used correctly". Perhaps Dilaudid and Fentanyl. ANY other legal opiate, WHEN USED CORRECTLY, would be SAFER THAN FUCKING MORPHINE. Biochemist or not, you know very little about opiate addiction. Your whole "hospital visit" scenario was laughable and ridiculous. Morphine addiction not being of epidemic proportions, as OC, AND Vicodin, etc., has NOTHING TO DO WITH MORPHINE BEING SAFE. OR LESS ADDICTIVE. It is a simple matter of AVAILABILITY. Enough said. Now GO AWAY. Or, continue to make a fool of yourself. Just stop encouraging people to try the NEW SAFE, and LESS ADDICTIVE OPIATE: MORPHINE. "I went to the hospital. I got some morphine. I didn't become an addict... I guess that's because it's relatively safe! WOOHOO!!! THAT CODEINE STUFF IS EVIL, AND ADDICTIVE... LET'S GO BANG SOME MORPHINE! GANZY INSISTS THAT IT'S SAFE, AND HE'S A BIOCHEMIST! HE DOESN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT TUSSIONEX, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO MORPHINE, ......

I didnt realize this was going to turn into a chemistry class but the only difference between hydrocodone and codeine is that one is a natural dirivitave of opium and one is synthetic.... the effects and chemical makeup are almost identical. I quoted the ingredients in tussionex..... one being Chlorpheniramine "CHLORPHENIRAMINE; CODEINE is a long-acting liquid medicine used to treat cough that may occur with throat irritation or the common cold, and symptoms of hay fever or allergies such as runny nose, sneezing, itching of the nose or throat, or itchy watery eyes. Generic Chlorpheniramine; Codeine extended-release suspension is not available." Now to the uneducated eye, this may have not appreared to be codeine, but .... unfortunately for you it is. Now if you want me to further prove you wrong I will... I have suffered with chronic pain for a while now and I can tell you I am very happy my doc is open with giving me pain meds... I see how one with little self control could become addcited, but that doesnt make it dangerous. Views vary... I respect yours. I have no problem discussing the moral and addiction level parts of our convo but please dont sit there and try to prove me wrong about the chemical side to this.... I really do know what I am talking about when it comes to that. I have studied it for long hours. Peace.

__________________
for the record everything i say under this account and or on these forums, is false and or fictional, and in no way shape or form represent me and or real life.

Hey Ganzy baby! Glad to hear from you; glad you calmed down, too. Do you remember this post? This is where I took issue with you, and your knowledge. I'm not sure what your last post meant, to be honest. I've been clear in my posts since this started, and simply corrected you, and called you out for your immature, and unfounded, personal attacks.

Tussionex does not contain any Codeine. Nor does it contain "promenthazine". Or any other drug that controls nausea. Hydrocodone is indeed different from codeine, and I pointed that out very clearly. Hydrocodone is NOT synthetic, like fentanyl, or methadone, as you must know as a chemist. It is semi-synthetic.

I actually look forward to gaining some knowledge from you. But you, in turn, must do the same, with respect. You posted some very wrong info - I corrected you. That should've been the end of it. I'm going to read your last post again, to try to make some sense of it. After that, let's move on.

the chemical i prevously stated is what is contained in tussionex..... the ingredient is essencially codeine.... if something is altered from its natural state it is then synthetic... it cant be both. Codeine is a direct natural derivitave. hydrocodone is the altered version of codeine. when i said tussionex i was speaking of the general cough syrups used in medicine. companies use different alkaloids in them... i have seen both codeine and hydrocodone used, many times with promenthazine. as you know opiates cause nausea. i dont know of antihistamines used ever in these for they are used soley for cough suppression. Bottom line is that the brand tussionex carries codeine in one of their lines of cough suppressants and the many other companies that produce this product all use different things.... mainly containing hydrocodone and codeine along with other various chemicals... all the companies vary.

__________________
for the record everything i say under this account and or on these forums, is false and or fictional, and in no way shape or form represent me and or real life.

another thing jazzman, I dont feel the need to actually go into the chemical structure of these things, for I feel it is uneccesary... on this site i think its perfectly okay to be somewhat vauge when it comes to this.... we dont need to be so specific it sparks arguements between a chemist and a recovered addict that otherwise would get along great im sure.... I wasnt detailed with comments I made and i will continue to not be because theres really no point to go into such great detail. the point I was getting across was that a codeine like substance was in cough suppresants and not oxycodone like was previously thought earlier in the post by others. I was just trying to make a connection to codeine that some others may know which is "lean" or tussionex or whatever generic brand name. people drink it alot medically and recreationally. Theres no need to go any more into the chemical side of any of this I believe a SCIENTIST has cleared this up.... As for the attacks that came about im sorry it wont happen again I myself was on an opiate and was somewhat aggrivated because of the after effects one gets. I'm sure youll understand.

__________________
for the record everything i say under this account and or on these forums, is false and or fictional, and in no way shape or form represent me and or real life.

Ganzy! Baby! Thanks for the apology man, I appreciate that. In light of your explanation, however, it wasn't even necessary; I understand more than you know. BUT......

As an educated human being, and certainly as a chemist, you seem to be confusing inaccuracy with lack of specificity... Indeed, you seem to be defending - and excusing - your inaccuracy by claiming that you were simply being vague. I don't think I buy that, but if that's the honest truth, well... fair enough.
Please be specific in the future. More importantly, be accurate.

Quote:

if something is altered from its natural state it is then synthetic

(umm, yes, it can. lol at you)

Wrong. Not vague, not lacking specificity, just wrong. Are you really a chemist? Hydrocodone, as you said, is an altered form of a natural opiate. Therefore, it is SEMI-SYNTHETIC. A chemist should know this! That is the inherent difference which you seem so willing to ignore. NO scientist would refer to HYDROCODONE as Codeine, or vice-versa. Nor would most people who've EVER taken a vicodin, or a Tylenol 3/4.

Quote:

when i said tussionex i was speaking of the general cough syrups used in medicine. companies use different alkaloids in them... i have seen both codeine and hydrocodone used, many times with promenthazine. as you know opiates cause nausea. i dont know of antihistamines used ever in these

suppressants

Wrong again.
Tussionex is not a general term, my chemist friend. It is a brand name for a cough syrup which contains - generic or not - Hydrocodone and an ANTIHISTAMINE. And NO, it is not soley (SP) for "cough suppression". Wrong again. And again, it contains NO PROMENTHAZINE. No formulations with hydrocodone DO. That's the point: It's HYDROCODONE, NOT CODEINE. It is a SEMI-SYNTHETIC opiate, created to be much more potent than codeine, mg for mg, and to cause nausea in a much lower percentage of people.

Look forward to hearing from you!

I am quoting now, Jazzman, from Wikipedia.... these are the uses "
As sedative/hypnotic
For preoperative sedation and to counteract postnarcotic nausea
Together with codeine or dextromethorphan against cough
It can be used to increase the activity of opioids. It allows lower opioid doses and decreases their emetic properties.
As a motion sickness or seasickness when used with Ephedrine or Pseudoephedrine.
As an antipruritic (pruritus vulvae).
To combat moderate to severe morning sickness and hyperemesis gravidarum."

Now Jazzman you are really getting in the glue.... I used a brand name when referring to this "mixture" and I suppose I apoligize for that? I didnt realzie how specific I had to be when all I was doing was getting a point across. If you were to look up "Lean" in a place like wikipedia you would find this:
"Lean is an illegal recreational drink popular in the hip-hop community of the Southern United States. Its main ingredients are prescription-strength cough syrup containing codeine and promethazine.[1]"

Now Jazzman, I believe I was speaking about Lean originally before you came and decided you were going to try and fight that with what little knowledge you have. I wasnt being scientific, I was using the "slang" terminology that I believed was appropriate for the context i used it in. Yes, Promenthazine can be used as an antihistanmine, BUT the actual use has nothing to do with that since there is many other more effective alternatives. People also have varying opinions about the synthetic vs natural drugs. I myself have the liberty to view this in black and white.... If its altered its synthetic.... period. Now who ever may read this can also have their opinion... in my career whether or not a chemical is labeled synthetic or not has not changed anything. You are just a know it all Jazzman who apparently, doesnt know to much when it comes to this. I am offended you would challenge the fact that I am a chemist because I take pride in my work. You can think what youd like jazzman it doesnt effect me at all.... youve amused me so far with your confident ways and your factual knowledge when in reality you just a bullshitter. Now, Im almost sorry I had to make you look like such a fool.

__________________
for the record everything i say under this account and or on these forums, is false and or fictional, and in no way shape or form represent me and or real life.

Ganzy! You're all upset again! What happened?

I have no idea what LEAN is. I don't care; I never referred to it, and neither did you. Your pride and your anger seems to have gotten the best of you. Again, NO, you weren't talking about LEAN, or any other cough medicines. You referred specifically to TUSSIONEX. Just read your own posts. You never had a point. You simply were wrong, and I corrected you. We wouldn't be here if you had simply owned up to a silly mistake, which neither you or I truly care about.

Should I remind you of your last post? You were wrong about so many things, it's astonishing. Are you currently using? Or abusing? I believe your judgement, not to mention your brain, has been clouded.

I'm not sure why you posted that info on promethazine...? You're rambling. And making no sense. If you're a chemist, as you claim to be, you never should have referred to Tussionex as a drug containing Codeine and promethazine, as it contains NEITHER. Are you in such a haze that you don't realize that? It was the basis of our "argument". I never said anything about LEAN, or any other cough syrup. Nor did I refer to anything containing Codeine, or promethazine.

i

Quote:

dont know of antihistamines used ever in these for they are used soley for cough suppression.

Tussionex = Hydrocodone and Antihistamine. Were you wrong? Or perhaps just being vague? Or was that slang?

No, Ganzy, it does not. There is no brand of "TUSSIONEX" that contains codeine. Certainly not an anti-emetic. Your education should have taught you that; with Hydrocodone it's simply not necessary. Being a semi-synthetic opiate that was created in an attempt to make a more potent form of it's natural cousin, which would not cause as many adverse reactions, namely, nausea. Not to mention the many people who are allergic to codeine: many can safely consume hydrocodone.

No, Hydrocodone is not ESSENCIALLY(sp) Codeine. Are you a chemist or not? Stop using your so called "SLANG" for the benefit of all the uneducated here. It is a very different drug, despite the fact that it is derived from Codeine. Your education should have taught you that. If codeine was in fact ESSENCIALLY hydrocodone, the absurd amount of addicts across the country would ESSENCIALLY be popping Tylenol 3, not Vicodin. And Codein would essenTially be one of the MOST prescribed and abused drug in the country, not vicodin. And YOU, would essencially, be RIGHT.

Is Codeine essentially Opium? Or is it essentially Morphine? Both of which it is obtained from.....

No, Ganzy. No. I'm sorry, but there is no opinion at issue here. You have the liberty to be WRONG. And incredibly stubborn. Codeine is a classified as a naturally occurring opiate. Do you actually KNOW THAT? Or are you simply unwilling to admit it, as it would hurt your ego? Hydrocodone is a semi-synthetic opiate, as it was synthesized FROM a naturally occurring opiate. That is not my OPINION, it is a simple fact. Ganzy, I'm NOT enjoying this. If it makes you feel better to believe the delusion that your are somehow
making a fool of me, well, more power to you. Fantasy can be FUN! So you insist that you're a chemist: wonderful. This, however, is simple pharmacology; there are no opinions to be considered here. When an opiate is synthesized without extraction from a naturally occurring opiate, it is then a true synthetic opiod. Fentanyl, Methadone, etc...

Let's be sure to keep this going Ganzy baby! I'm slowly, but surely, beginning to ENJOY being made such a fool of.