A Tale of The Tape HPA vs 21st Century Flood and Drain

KiteHigh wrote:
"I found a place with the wave point Ultra Growths for sale but man $31 a pop...already the damned arcadias are $45 per and only last about 7-8 months unless I veg really long then 6 months

http://www.aquacon.com/WavepointT5Lightbulbs.html
and the shipping on 4 bulbs is $50!"

Great SDG. The price is reflective of the strong/broad 660+ nms, which may not be THAT important

uvl 660 price correction: They are $29.95

In regards to TAG "true aero growing," most aero growers start at a 5 sec on 30 min off interval. Best get yourself a cyclestat timer for aero. If you over-saturate your rootzone by spraying more than necessary the roots will take on a NFT appearance and you will get a lot less root/surface area along with tap roots finding their way into every drain hole. You also will not get any lateral root growth.(fine lateral root hairs reaching out sideways) The tricky balance comes in when you see wilting. It's best to keep the room RH a little higher to start with until finding that magic mist interval. If they do start wilting, increase your spray time from 5 sec to 7 sec, keeping the off interval at 30 min still. The whole idea with aeroponics is the micron size mist particles that are surrounded with so much oxygen. When the mist time is to long, the mist particles combine to form larger water droplets and you lose the whole aeroponics game. If you mist to frequently the same thing happens and the mist droplets combine to form larger ones before the roots even absorb the fine mist from the first spraying time. Aero IS in fact the fastest growing method if it is done correctly, if not, all you have is an expensive NFT system with long roots that sit on the floor of the tray like a wet carpet eventually taking on a brown appearance (not white like aero).

Originally Posted by Fonzarelli

In regards to TAG "true aero growing," most aero growers start at a 5 sec on 30 min off interval. Best get yourself a cyclestat timer for aero. If you over-saturate your rootzone by spraying more than necessary the roots will take on a NFT appearance and you will get a lot less root/surface area along with tap roots finding their way into every drain hole. You also will not get any lateral root growth.(fine lateral root hairs reaching out sideways) The tricky balance comes in when you see wilting. It's best to keep the room RH a little higher to start with until finding that magic mist interval. If they do start wilting, increase your spray time from 5 sec to 7 sec, keeping the off interval at 30 min still. The whole idea with aeroponics is the micron size mist particles that are surrounded with so much oxygen. When the mist time is to long, the mist particles combine to form larger water droplets and you lose the whole aeroponics game. If you mist to frequently the same thing happens and the mist droplets combine to form larger ones before the roots even absorb the fine mist from the first spraying time. Aero IS in fact the fastest growing method if it is done correctly, if not, all you have is an expensive NFT system with long roots that sit on the floor of the tray like a wet carpet eventually taking on a brown appearance (not white like aero).

You're right Fonzarelli, however with the chamber size he is using, he'd need mist timings of one second or less to not oversaturate as you say...

Originally Posted by Fonzarelli

In regards to TAG "true aero growing," most aero growers start at a 5 sec on 30 min off interval. Best get yourself a cyclestat timer for aero. If you over-saturate your rootzone by spraying more than necessary the roots will take on a NFT appearance and you will get a lot less root/surface area along with tap roots finding their way into every drain hole. You also will not get any lateral root growth.(fine lateral root hairs reaching out sideways) The tricky balance comes in when you see wilting. It's best to keep the room RH a little higher to start with until finding that magic mist interval. If they do start wilting, increase your spray time from 5 sec to 7 sec, keeping the off interval at 30 min still. The whole idea with aeroponics is the micron size mist particles that are surrounded with so much oxygen. When the mist time is to long, the mist particles combine to form larger water droplets and you lose the whole aeroponics game. If you mist to frequently the same thing happens and the mist droplets combine to form larger ones before the roots even absorb the fine mist from the first spraying time. Aero IS in fact the fastest growing method if it is done correctly, if not, all you have is an expensive NFT system with long roots that sit on the floor of the tray like a wet carpet eventually taking on a brown appearance (not white like aero).

Hey thanks for dropping in, but where did this comment come from? Did you look at my root pic? Nothing NFT about them! Tons of tiny fish bones often loaded with root hairs and egg shell white

AND if you are going to give T-HPA advice, I can tell you on wet/pause time has to do with several factors, starting with pod size then ambient room temps, and radiant heat on pod surface.

I am concerned that more than 2 seconds in my 30G pod will cause the atomized mist to combine into large droplets- and I am using a 100 psi with 4 @ 0.09 mist heads (is my decimal in the right place?).

Root hairs come and go as the room ambient temps rise and fall. 10-20 degree swings this time of year can quickly dry out the root hairs. I was running one second on 1:45 off, but lost the hairs when the room temp went up.

I am currently running 2 seconds on/2:35 off during lights on, and ~ 25% of the hairs are back. I just increased 'on' to 3 seconds and pause to 4:36 ring lights on. Will monitor and increase in small increments: 1: 60

Now PERHAPS if I was using only ONE mist head I might push to 4-5 seconds, but one mist head does not assure complete 360 coverage around each root mass (neither did 3 heads @ one second), so I would say minimum of 2 mist heads, but staggered and aimed in opposite directions.

I grew 3 plants from my own F1 cross. Unfortunately the 2 hpa plants are expressing rather smallish phenos. One is ~ 14" cola with 4 tiny side branch buds, the other is ~ 20" with 4 @ ~ 6" side branch colas (not even golf ball size). I will enjoy smoking them, but damn what a waste of a comparison test

I took 2 very late clones from the big girl in my 21st Century F & D just yesterday, as I had no room in the inn until I got the new tent a few days ago. If the clones both take I will run one last hpa v F & D. HPA uses about as much nutes over 7 days (but I have to stay on top of dumping them daily (D2W) and refilling the rez daily: by comparison hpa is a PITA.

I pH and ppm my F & D twice a week (takes ~ one gallon of pure water to readjust ppms) and dump the nutes every 7 days

Ya can't beat my DIY 21st Century F & D for simplicity. And the way I have it set up, it grows like crazy

Originally Posted by polyarcturus

you are correct kite high ive come to the same conclusions genetically gender is locked in. but sexual expression is phenotypical as far as ive seen in the MJ plant i believe given the right conditions, any gender plant can express either gender exclusively. also kite high if you havent read the book you should look into it.

PLANT ULTRA GROWTHS ARE OUT!!!!!!!!!!!! i will getting some somewhere now.

thank you but I have evolved past reading mj grow books and have been studying botany as it applies to class c higher plants which cannabis is one... but the majority of reading i do is my plants...they ALWAYS tell the truth

Originally Posted by Kite High

thank you but I have evolved past reading mj grow books and have been studying botany as it applies to class c higher plants which cannabis is one... but the majority of reading i do is my plants...they ALWAYS tell the truth

i can dig it kite high.

Originally Posted by PetFlora

Hey thanks for dropping in, but where did this comment come from? Did you look at my root pic? Nothing NFT about them! Tons of tiny fish bones often loaded with root hairs and egg shell white

AND if you are going to give T-HPA advice, I can tell you on wet/pause time has to do with several factors, starting with pod size then ambient room temps, and radiant heat on pod surface.

I am concerned that more than 2 seconds in my 30G pod will cause the atomized mist to combine into large droplets- and I am using a 100 psi with 4 @ 0.09 mist heads (is my decimal in the right place?).

Root hairs come and go as the room ambient temps rise and fall. 10-20 degree swings this time of year can quickly dry out the root hairs. I was running one second on 1:45 off, but lost the hairs when the room temp went up.

I am currently running 2 seconds on/2:35 off during lights on, and ~ 25% of the hairs are back. I just increased 'on' to 3 seconds and pause to 4:36 ring lights on. Will monitor and increase in small increments: 1: 60

Now PERHAPS if I was using only ONE mist head I might push to 4-5 seconds, but one mist head does not assure complete 360 coverage around each root mass (neither did 3 heads @ one second), so I would say minimum of 2 mist heads, but staggered and aimed in opposite directions.

I grew 3 plants from my own F1 cross. Unfortunately the 2 hpa plants are expressing rather smallish phenos. One is ~ 14" cola with 4 tiny side branch buds, the other is ~ 20" with 4 @ ~ 6" side branch colas (not even golf ball size). I will enjoy smoking them, but damn what a waste of a comparison test

I took 2 very late clones from the big girl in my 21st Century F & D just yesterday, as I had no room in the inn until I got the new tent a few days ago. If the clones both take I will run one last hpa v F & D. HPA uses about as much nutes over 7 days (but I have to stay on top of dumping them daily (D2W) and refilling the rez daily: by comparison hpa is a PITA.

I pH and ppm my F & D twice a week (takes ~ one gallon of pure water to readjust ppms) and dump the nutes every 7 days

Ya can't beat my DIY 21st Century F & D for simplicity. And the way I have it set up, it grows like crazy

5 sec on 30 min off is a starting point, that's all. It's what all the aero lettuce growers use in the industry. I really don't know what mist nozzles you are using, so maybe they put out more flow than what I'm use to. The one's I use are more like a fogger than anything. They run at .01 gallons/min. I run 10 nozzles so it fits my pump perfectly. I was running 30 sec on 30 min off and was getting the long roots as you described on the first page. Then I set it back to 5 sec on 30 min off and all I get is fluffy lateral root growth. Sure it depends on the size of your chamber, number of plants, etc. It's just a starting point, like I said to begin with.

In regards to the NFT type roots, this is what happens to the roots after about 3 or 4 weeks of growth if continually over saturated with mist. I know because it happened to me my first couple of rounds. LOL
At harvest, I took out a huge 3 inch thick carpet of roots all drenched. Not one yellow leaf on the plants, but still not TAG.