The Never Ending Abuse of Phosphorous (Bloom foods) to Enhance Flowering
- Thread starter Uncle Ben
- Start date
speero78
Well-Known Member
thank you ...and specially from you UB 
Have to thank you for all the things i have learned from your posts...cheers
Have to thank you for all the things i have learned from your posts...cheers
The2TimEr
Well-Known Member
i have been growing since 07 now and keep coming accross the same problem.. that is maintaining fan leaves..
this thread is very helpfull and is for sure bookmarked! big thanks to uncle ben!!
as you can see here with my current auto plants, all new growth is nice n green maybe even a little too green on my midget plant, with fan leaves suffering badly...
the easyryder on the right has already lost a couple of fans, and now the smaller girl ( la diva ) on the left is about to lose hers. i know autos have shorter life cycles but is has been the same with photo period plants, really struggling with the earlier fans.. N food is 10.6 - 4.4 - 1.7
thanks for any help in advance
this thread is very helpfull and is for sure bookmarked! big thanks to uncle ben!!
as you can see here with my current auto plants, all new growth is nice n green maybe even a little too green on my midget plant, with fan leaves suffering badly...
the easyryder on the right has already lost a couple of fans, and now the smaller girl ( la diva ) on the left is about to lose hers. i know autos have shorter life cycles but is has been the same with photo period plants, really struggling with the earlier fans.. N food is 10.6 - 4.4 - 1.7
thanks for any help in advance
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wyteboi
Well-Known Member
the2 , i am gonna recommend the opposite of the thread title. some K ! and a shot of extra P wont hurt either.
your K is very low compared to the others, an K is very important in soil. i would give a dose or two of some K. a "bloom booster" you already have layin around might work , just check the numbers.
they are flowering so a LIL extra P wont hurt at all.
i got some 1-4-5 i would use 3 or 4 times in a row.... or i got some 0-0-22 that i would use once or twice, ect...
soil
your K is very low compared to the others, an K is very important in soil. i would give a dose or two of some K. a "bloom booster" you already have layin around might work , just check the numbers.
they are flowering so a LIL extra P wont hurt at all.
i got some 1-4-5 i would use 3 or 4 times in a row.... or i got some 0-0-22 that i would use once or twice, ect...
soil
I just read all 51 pages and I must say wow, I did understand all of it, including the technical descriptions as I do have a scientific background. I do a lot of reading here but not so much questions as I usually think the answer is there if you search for it but after 51 pages I do have a question. How/can you correct an overdose of P in organic/soil? by organic I mean I don't use liquid nutes, I use a soilmix and I just use plain water on it, I use Vics super soil mix and started to see the yellowing and necrosis after about 3 weeks into flowering. I got sucked into the forum paradigm and believed that plants needed high P for flowering so when I switched them over to flower I top dressed with some high P bat guano 0-15-1. So is it possible to fix this or do I just have to ride it out for this harvest? I know I can't remove the guano and I am not sure if I should hit it with some N or anything to help it or if that might just make it worse, Ive been riding it out so far for a couple weeks and not sure what path is best to take, if you are reading this UB any advice is greatly appreciated.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
High P will lock out the micros, also N. Vigoro makes an All Purpose Food, 24-5-18, that will help. Get it at Casa dePot. A foliar citrus spray containing micros of Fe, Mg, Cu, Zn..... can help too.
http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm
Nightmarecreature
Active Member
There is a trade off going Nitrogen deficient in cannabis during flowering. Using N during flowering and keeping your leaves green will increase yield but it will also lower the THC content of the buds. The reason for going N deficient is that it increases the THC content of the buds while decreasing yield. It's a simple matter of quality or quantity. Neither of which is right or wrong, you decide.
"A study on how to minimize THC levels in hemp crops showed that THC levels in newer leaf growth decreased as nitrogen levels were increased." "This would also explain the good results that most growers have flushing their plants, as nitrogen is the nutrient most easily flushed from the soil."
B?csa, M?th? and Hangyel. Effect of nitrogen on tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content in hemp leaves at different positions. 1997. Journal of the International Hemp Association 4(2): 78 -79.
I don't believe flushing is necessary, I do believe all it does is speed up the curing time. I believe it is like this.
Flush your plants and go N deficient, lower yield, increased potency and a shorter cure time.
No flush, go green and have a bigger yield, lower potency and a longer cure time to break down the chlorophyll.
"A study on how to minimize THC levels in hemp crops showed that THC levels in newer leaf growth decreased as nitrogen levels were increased." "This would also explain the good results that most growers have flushing their plants, as nitrogen is the nutrient most easily flushed from the soil."
B?csa, M?th? and Hangyel. Effect of nitrogen on tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content in hemp leaves at different positions. 1997. Journal of the International Hemp Association 4(2): 78 -79.
I don't believe flushing is necessary, I do believe all it does is speed up the curing time. I believe it is like this.
Flush your plants and go N deficient, lower yield, increased potency and a shorter cure time.
No flush, go green and have a bigger yield, lower potency and a longer cure time to break down the chlorophyll.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
That study does not apply to high THC material, only hemp. Apples and oranges, plus if you read it, it's full of half truths. We've already had this discussion.
Read this - https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/267989-uncle-bens-gardening-tweeks-pointers-59.html#post8342178
Read this - https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/267989-uncle-bens-gardening-tweeks-pointers-59.html#post8342178
Nightmarecreature
Active Member
I have noticed the difference in trying it out myself, I don't need a book to tell me that. It does apply to medical cannabis. High N and there is a small loss in potency. The reason is the plant focuses on growth instead of resin production. It's not a huge THC decrease but I do notice the difference. The book also states something along the lines of high levels of potassium and phosphate decrease THC in hemp but that the opposite is true in medical cannabis.
Also keeping your leaves green all through flower increases curing time. Flushing is not necessary but some things people do for a reason. The reason people flush is because they want to smoke their crop as soon as possible.
I agree with your topics on nutes. I know people who grow nice plants on cheap walmart Shultz. I do know that the plants ability to uptake nutes is different for each brand.
You can see you have nice yields, 50% of yields are genetic. Do you have pictures of the yields with steady N vs deficient N?
Do you have pictures of the trichomes going N deficient and pics of the trichomes with steady levels of N?
Also keeping your leaves green all through flower increases curing time. Flushing is not necessary but some things people do for a reason. The reason people flush is because they want to smoke their crop as soon as possible.
I agree with your topics on nutes. I know people who grow nice plants on cheap walmart Shultz. I do know that the plants ability to uptake nutes is different for each brand.
You can see you have nice yields, 50% of yields are genetic. Do you have pictures of the yields with steady N vs deficient N?
Do you have pictures of the trichomes going N deficient and pics of the trichomes with steady levels of N?
Bakatare666
Well-Known Member
Just bumping a good read for the newbs.
bootkiller
Member
The Never Ending Abuse of Phosphorous (Bloom foods) to Enhance Flowering
i think i might of done this on accident.. and u knwo its killings me cause i stressed em so much that 2 of 4 plants that are 7 weeks into flowering are now showing naners and i got to pull em everyday..
now i noticed today black tips on some of hte leaves.. i hit them with Foxfarm open sesamie, foxfarm beasty bloom and now foxfarm cha ching.. i thik i hit them too hard cause im getting loss of leaves, growth stoped, for both bud production and leafs, lots of yellow leafs, that are burning and curling, my bucket is root bound.. help me.. what can i do to get my last 2 weeks left to get them to produce a lil more.. right now it wasnt worth my time.. maybe off 4 northerns fem indoors under 1000w air cooled in a 4x8 tent, in 5 gallon pots that are root bound i think cause i veged to long. using ocean forest soil.. 600 cfm inline with 200 cfm booster, any help would be appreciated..
Ok so I have been reading threw this and I definitely have a nute deficiency but my question is, What are all these black spots I am getting? I have 3 in flower all with the same nute cycle but only 1 has these black spots. My light was a little close to the plants but I backed it off a bit today. Dont think thats the problem though as I am using leds and they dont get too hot in there. What im thinking from reading threw this is a mag deficiency or maybe mold?. I also noticed that on top of one of my colas i have a bit of really bright red. Only one 1 cola out the 3 plants in flower has the red in it. Thought that was a bit odd? Any addvice would be greatly appreciated.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Nothing, the damage has been done. Just try to keep as many healthy leaves as possible until harvest. IOW, shit can the bloom foods!
Again.........
Do not use bloom foods, any food low in N, for any extended period of time. I (and others who are following my example) are using a high N food from start to finish and their yields and the health of their plants have greatly improved.
UB
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
With such limited info, it's anybody's guess. Leaf spots is just an indication of impending leaf necrosis. It's a symptom.
What foods have you been using?
bootkiller
Member
so wait.. your saying its ok to use (N) during Flowering even at 7 weeks in?
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
It's not only OK, it's what you should be doing to support green healthy leaves. If you search out my posts you'll see references to me using a slow release 18-4-9 until harvest and a reference to Homebrewers recent test using 6 clones testing a low P food, Foliage Pro 9-3-6 against DG's Grow food. The yield of the high N food was 10% higher than the high P food. It's at another forum with a short version here. Here are a few pix which I C/P - https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/267989-uncle-bens-gardening-tweeks-pointers-76.html
Curious, why do you guys put so much faith in markets who sell you what they think you want to hear and buy and not science? It's not bloom foods that produce, it's foliage. See my first post.
Cannabis is nothing more than a tropical foliage plant that blooms, which all foliage plants do.
UB
I am in week 3 of flowering. All I am using is humboldt nutrients bloom natural 0-10-0 and has 10% cal nothing else. I have been doing half dosage untill now. I was going to switch over to age old bloom wich is 5-10-5. Im sure that will help with the yellowing of the leafs but i want to get rid of the black spots. None of my growth has slowed down its just the discoloration that i am worried about.