Experienced Electrician! Here to Answer Any and All Growroom Electrical Questions

[contraptionated]

Here is how I go about not using media throughout veg or flowering ( I only use peat pellets[rapid rooter will do just fine as well] for starting the seedlings after they germinate). Let me rewind a little and give you a very successful process sequence. 1.) create a germination station with a humidome with the black rectangular tray, a large metal sauce pot( not too large because it has to fit inside the dome) a small opaque Tupperware bowl that fits inside the water filled metal sauce pot ( put a 50 watt aquarium heater in the sauce pot , please no larger than 50 watt on that aquarium heater) and put a seedling heat mat under the sauce pot. So far we have a metal sauce pot half full of water with a 50 watt submersible heater and a seedling heat mat ( non submersible of course ) in between the black tray and the bottom of the water filled sauce pot. The small round Tupperware is floating on top of the water and you will use the temperature probe from a 50 dollar Ranco temperature controller to sense the temperature of the wet paper towel(Ranco sensor is placed in the Tupperware on top of the wet paper towel that holds the seeds, do not put the Ranco sensor in the water that is contained in the metal sauce pot) with the seeds that were placed in the opaque Tupperware bowl that is floating in the sauce pot. The Ranco temperature sensor wire (and the cord for the heat mat and submersible 50 watt heater) will pass through one of the adjustable vent dials of the humid ome. After that's done ( remember you need to wire the heat mat and submersible heater to turn on and off from the Ranco temperature controller ( its just a fancy thermostat) cover it all up with some 3/4" Polyshield (white polystyrene foam board with reflective Mylar coating) in such a way to afford easy access. Keep the Ranco temp controller itself out of the humidome (of course). Now you will have the best little germination machine that will work in a cold environment if need be. If you understand how the germination station works , please give confirmation and I will proceed to step 2.) 20 gallon rubbermaid (brute or roughneck) dwc/bubbleponic seedling station. The rapid rooters (but most preferably peat pellets )are used here to root the germinated seedlings.

 

[starlight13]

I did get a germination station for the seeds. I was also taking a look at the totes at home depot to build my own UCDWC or Variation of it with a drip ring since it is not much work. Let me know about your ideas and thank you.

 

[contraptionated]

Step 2.) Rubbermaid 20 gallon dwc/bubbleponic seedling rooter. Acquire these things: Danner Pondmaster AP100 diaphragm air pump. An 8.5" round aluminum oxide airstone (this airstone is one of a kind. Only the round one of this diameter is made of non-dissolvable super strong aluminum oxide (totally safe by the way, and easy to clean). Can be had through drsfostersmith dot com. 1-4'x8' sheet of 3/4" Mylar coated white polystyrene foam insulation board from home deeps. 1-100 watt submersible aquarium heater (if neccessary). 1 foot of weighted 3/8" airline tubing.A 3/8"barb x 1/2" mpt fitting (preferably pvc sch.40 white ). A 1/2" fpt x 1/2" slip fitting (sch.40 pvc). 2 feet of 1/2" pvc pipe. A 1/2" pvc ball valve (slip x slip). A 90 degree 1/2" pvc elbow (slip x fpt). A 1/2" mpt x 1/2" barb adapter. Put all the pvc parts together in the order I stated them in the list. Attach 6" of the weighted tubing to the 3/8" barb connector on the airstone to make a non kinkable flexible 90 degree bend for the stem that was put together from the list of pvc parts ( that were put together in order ). Attach a 1/2" hose to the top of the stem that comes out of the pail and then attach the 1/2" air hose for the air stone to 3/4"pvc manifold that has 12 1/2" outlets for 12 airstones. For now you use only one for the rooter . Close off all the others except for one that stays open just enough to discharge a 1/2" hose into a half full 5 gallon bucket so you can bleed the excess air from the AP 100 air pump( if you send the full output of the pump through one airstone , you will break the stone ). This bleeding is temporary until you supplement your current culture system with these exact same round airstones . For now you will adjust the 1/2" pvc valve at the top of the pvc airstone stem ,which travels down the water column of the bubble rooter , so you get the bubbles popping above the level of the water surface in the rubbermaid 20 gallon . Use 2 layers of 3/4" poly to hold peat pellets ( cut holes in this new Polyshield double layer garbage pail "cap" and make the holes snug around the seed containing peat pellets). Make sure 3/8" of the peat pellet bottom protrudes downward from the Polyshield cap and keep the water level 4" away from the peat pellet bottom. So far we have a round indestructible airstone agitating the water surface and popping bubbles toward the bottom of the peat pellet to keep it moist.Dont forget the double layer of foam that holds the peat pellet in place and blocks light from hitting the water surface. Now you need level control and auto topoff. My level control system is not used or known by any other human being. It is very, very far and away superior to all other means of level control ( the better your level control in dwc/ bubbleponics the better your yield will be. If you understood step 2 please confirm and I will proceed to Step 3.) The worlds best level control and auto top off system ( It is and I don't have to be humble about that claim because it is 100% reliable and it cannot be bought, it can only be built) I have kept it secret for close to a decade and I will reveal it now. Without it you will never achieve reliable automation of evaporation top-off which is the most commonly overlooked and ALWAYS DONE WRONG part of a hydro system. It can only be done properly with the device known as the World Magnetics PSF103. If you choose to not use this for your auto top off , I laugh and you lose. Please confirm understanding of Step 2 and I will proceed.

 

[contraptionated]

P.S. No drip rings ever. That is for people who use lesser methods that don't produce as well in dwc systems. I only approve of media for Heaths Flooded Tube Vertical. The methods I use for veg and flower are without grow media for a few different reasons. I have done every method imaginable and when the world ran out of methods I had made all different possible combinations of known methods just to be sure that MEDIA IS A HINDRANCE IN DWC AND ALL OTHER FORMS OF HYDROPONIC sorry for yelling , except for Heaths Flooded Tube Vertical. Only that method absolutely needs clay pebbles and a rooting cube in flowering. I will get to how you will be able to achieve nirvana in your ucdwc modified system with no media. It will all make sense once it is fully explained. You have the canvas to achieve greatness. I may be the only one who can make you achieve that greatness from A to Z. You need not learn from mistakes because I made all the possible mistakes in the past. I purged myself of the phenomenon known as errors. Please benefit from my experience.The word hydroponic literally translates to waterwork not pebblework or woolwork so forget the drip rings. I ditched those a long time ago.

 

[legallyflying]

Ummm...got arrogance? If you want to blather on and on about your world exclusive DWC method that nobody has and nobody can ever think to achieve...perhaps start another thread.

You started dialoging in the electrical question thread

 

[contraptionated]

I knew it was misplaced (but not misinformation) and I will move the info elsewhere . Thank you legallyflying for correcting me

 

[contraptionated]

I knew it was misplaced (but not misinformation) and I will move the info elsewhere . Thank you legallyflying for correcting me Although the level sensor I use is sorely needed because it doesn't get locked into position the way a standard float switch will.

 

[starlight13]

I would prefer to stick to the basics and the proven methods while I work on new techniques as I gradually apply what I learn to grow and grow more gardens. I plan on growing my own food for my family and friends and doing an outdoor garden as soon we are up and running with the electricity to run the hydro set up so we will leave the grow part out of this topic until the subpanel has been set up and I can start my 1st journal.

 

[contraptionated]

All good. It is best for you to run through the basics so that you can appreciate the advanced techniques all the more if the time comes that you choose to take the grow beyond the outer limits. You seem to understand why it is important to get to know your incoming utility service and house panel. If you have any questions on that, let me know . You seem more than capable of wielding the Fluke T5-600 to measure all the calculated loads and I'm sure you will be able to confirm if the 150A 2-pole main breaker will be able to serve your intended future needs. All the best!

 

[Impman]

whats with all the exposed wire, mr. electrician? i dunno , that looks pretty shady for a 'experienced electrician'.

 

[wheels619]

whats with all the exposed wire, mr. electrician? i dunno , that looks pretty shady for a 'experienced electrician'.

that picture your speaking of is something im guessing you have no idea about. that picture is perfect. nothing wrong with the wiring at all. its all cleaned and tucked nice.

 

[contraptionated]

whats with all the exposed wire, mr. electrician? i dunno , that looks pretty shady for a 'experienced electrician'.

What exposed wire are you referring to? Can you be more specific? I don't remember telling anybody to run any exposed wire unless it was for the main bonding (grounding). I only remember mentioning how to identify the size of the exposed overhead service lateral (supplied by the utility ) and the exposed #6 awg main water grounding conductor (#6 is allowed to be run bare and exposed for that particular size water main bonding conductor and the same size can be run bare and exposed for the grounding rod that is bonded to the same neutral before the main breaker). So, "Mr. I Dunno What The Heck I Am Talking About" why don't you learn to be more humble when you ask about something that you have no idea of. Or you could have just looked up Article 250 of the NEC and spared us your foolishness. Man, some people around here should just learn to ask me to elaborate before they make them selves look stupid. A MAIN GROUNDING CONDUCTOR IS NOT A LIVE WIRE AND THAT IS WHY IT CAN BE RUN EXPOSED SO LONG AS IT IS SUPPORTED IN A WORKMANLIKE MANNER TO THE BUILDING STRUCTURE IN AS SHORT OF A RUN AS POSSIBLE sorry for yelling, you made me do it. Got it???

 

[wheels619]

What exposed wire are you referring to? Can you be more specific? I don't remember telling anybody to run any exposed wire unless it was for the main bonding (grounding). I only remember mentioning how to identify the size of the exposed overhead service lateral (supplied by the utility ) and the exposed #6 awg main water grounding conductor (#6 is allowed to be run bare and exposed for that particular size water main bonding conductor and the same size can be run bare and exposed for the grounding rod that is bonded to the same neutral before the main breaker). So, "Mr. I Dunno What The Heck I Am Talking About" why don't you learn to be more humble when you ask about something that you have no idea of. Or you could have just looked up Article 250 of the NEC and spared us your foolishness. Man, some people around here should just learn to ask me to elaborate before they make them selves look stupid. A MAIN GROUNDING CONDUCTOR IS NOT A LIVE WIRE AND THAT IS WHY IT CAN BE RUN EXPOSED SO LONG AS IT IS SUPPORTED IN A WORKMANLIKE MANNER TO THE BUILDING STRUCTURE IN AS SHORT OF A RUN AS POSSIBLE sorry for yelling, you made me do it. Got it???

he is referring to the original posters pic.

 

[contraptionated]

The original poster... From 4 years ago??If that's the case, I humbly apologize. Big misunderstanding.

 

[legallyflying]

Hey they gang, I am wiring up a new control box for an 18k watt room. I have a couple questions that could use some answers/verification. The controller is supported by a 100 amp breaker 30 feet from the controller.

1. I plan to run #4 thhn for the two hots and #6 for the ground. I am also going to run a neutral wire to the controller for a single set of 120 outlets. Can I run #6 or 8 for this? (240 draw is about 80 amps, 120 about 3)
The run is through 1.5" plastic conduit FYI

2. Each double gang 240 box is powered by #10 romex with 12 gauge ground. Please confirm that 12 ground is ok.

3. I am at a loss about the ground and neutral bars in the control panel. Should they be joined by one of those heavy gauge copper wires that run between the neutral and ground bars? I believe the term is bonded. I was reading that auxiliary panels (my controller) do not need to be bonded? But that seems counterintuitive to me as when I install the neutral bar..it would be connected to ground without that wire. My controller panel only has one bar for ground\neutral right now. I have to purchase another.

4. Thanks for help. I'll post a picture when I'm done with it. It's pretty sweet. 18 240 plugs with staggered start and a temperature cut off that will shut 12 of the lights off at 90 degrees and turn on after room gets to 78 (and a 12 minute safety delay)

Total cost is about $250 for the panel. Retail is more than 1k! For something similar. DX hydro wanted $850

 

[contraptionated]

Hey they gang, I am wiring up a new control box for an 18k watt room. I have a couple questions that could use some answers/verification. The controller is supported by a 100 amp breaker 30 feet from the controller.

1. I plan to run #4 thhn for the two hots and #6 for the ground. I am also going to run a neutral wire to the controller for a single set of 120 outlets. Can I run #6 or 8 for this? (240 draw is about 80 amps, 120 about 3)
The run is through 1.5" plastic conduit FYI

2. Each double gang 240 box is powered by #10 romex with 12 gauge ground. Please confirm that 12 ground is ok.

3. I am at a loss about the ground and neutral bars in the control panel. Should they be joined by one of those heavy gauge copper wires that run between the neutral and ground bars? I believe the term is bonded. I was reading that auxiliary panels (my controller) do not need to be bonded? But that seems counterintuitive to me as when I install the neutral bar..it would be connected to ground without that wire. My controller panel only has one bar for ground\neutral right now. I have to purchase another.

4. Thanks for help. I'll post a picture when I'm done with it. It's pretty sweet. 18 240 plugs with staggered start and a temperature cut off that will shut 12 of the lights off at 90 degrees and turn on after room gets to 78 (and a 12 minute safety delay)

Total cost is about $250 for the panel. Retail is more than 1k! For something similar. DX hydro wanted $850

If you really are running 18kw then me and you have much in common. I will answer all your questions tomorrow. After I answer your questions (to the exact Nth degree with the minimal amount of materials while staying up to code and very safe) please consider a level switch design ( that I will provide for you via pm) that can't not change your life. The level switch I speak of is the secret to my hydroponic success.

 

[legallyflying]

Thanks man. In my bucket room (9k) I use a aqua hub DIY ebb and grow control bucket. I mounted the fill float switches on a sheet of plexiglass that I can raise and lower to modify the level of water in the buckets. I get about 1\4" variation in water height with the float switches which is plenty for me.

The 18k room is a bare bulb Hempy bucket tree grow.

 

[contraptionated]

You're very welcome. Let me ask you about the float switch you mentioned (fill switch.). Can it operate without any problem on a highly agitated water surface? Would a floating mega root ball interfere with its operation ?

 

[contraptionated]

You're loaded to about 80% of the main with just the 18-1000 watt ballasts, but thats ok because we dont treat a sub panel like one big branch circuit( in the case of a branch circuit we would only load up to 80% of the breaker rating but this is not the case so your good with that main breaker, although you are still under 80% )1000 watt ballast draw about 1080-1100 watts. 1080 x 18 =18720 watts. Divide that by 120V to get 156 amps @ 120v or 78 amps per phase (a and b). The 2-pole 100A main breaker feeding the sub panel ( I'm assuming the main is 2-pole and the controller panel is a main lug fed 220V split- phase bus unless you tell me otherwise) can take the calculated load per phase of 78 amps a piece for the lights and the 3 amps per phase of 120 volt loads is also doable downstream of a 100 amp main ( with proper branch circuit overprotection for each circuit at the controller panel bus).Your #4 wire can only be protected by a breaker not exceeding 85 amps so you need to upsize the hot phase conductors to # 3 copper .The only time we upsize a breaker past the current carrying capacity of the conductors is when that overcurrent protection is for a specific dedicated piece of equipment listed as one device requiring separate over current protection and the allowance of sizing a breaker at 125% of the conductors it protects (that percentage is a common multiplier when dealing with the sizing of breakers protecting heavy duty motors) would not apply to a main supplying a power and lighting panel. To be code compliant you need #3 gauge copper wire for a and b phase, as per the 75 degree Celsius column of Table 310.16 . Your choice of #6 or 8 for the neutral is fine because you don't have much of a possible unbalance on the neutral because of almost no 120V loads. The grounding (green) conductor sizing is also fine. Just isolate the grounding (green) bar from the enclosure when you mount it and make sure to land the # 6 grounding (green) conductor between the neutral bar of the main panel and the grounding bar of the controller. The #10 Romex is more than enough. If the 240 box you speak of is for a 250V/15A receptacle for each 1000 watt ballast to be plugged into , then they could have been supplied with #12 (or #14 Romex if your municipality allows #14 for 15 amp branch circuits)Romex with # 14 equipment grounding conductors so you' re good there too. Don't make any bond between the grounding (green) bar and the neutral (ground bar). It's a sub panel and not only do you not need it, you are not supposed to. Also, take note of the difference in terms (ground conductor is a neutral and a grounding conductor is the green).

 

[oakley1984]

You're loaded to about 80% of the main with just the 18-1000 watt ballasts, but thats ok because we dont treat a sub panel like one big branch circuit( in the case of a branch circuit we would only load up to 80% of the breaker rating but this is not the case so your good with that main breaker, although you are still under 80% )1000 watt ballast draw about 1080-1100 watts. 1080 x 18 =18720 watts. Divide that by 120V to get 156 amps @ 120v or 78 amps per phase (a and b). The 2-pole 100A main breaker feeding the sub panel ( I'm assuming the main is 2-pole and the controller panel is a main lug fed 220V split- phase bus unless you tell me otherwise) can take the calculated load per phase of 78 amps a piece for the lights and the 3 amps per phase of 120 volt loads is also doable downstream of a 100 amp main ( with proper branch circuit overprotection for each circuit at the controller panel bus).Your #4 wire can only be protected by a breaker not exceeding 85 amps so you need to upsize the hot phase conductors to # 3 copper .The only time we upsize a breaker past the current carrying capacity of the conductors is when that overcurrent protection is for a specific dedicated piece of equipment listed as one device requiring separate over current protection and the allowance of sizing a breaker at 125% of the conductors it protects (that percentage is a common multiplier when dealing with the sizing of breakers protecting heavy duty motors) would not apply to a main supplying a power and lighting panel. To be code compliant you need #3 gauge copper wire for a and b phase, as per the 75 degree Celsius column of Table 310.16 . Your choice of #6 or 8 for the neutral is fine because you don't have much of a possible unbalance on the neutral because of almost no 120V loads. The grounding (green) conductor sizing is also fine. Just isolate the grounding (green) bar from the enclosure when you mount it and make sure to land the # 6 grounding (green) conductor between the neutral bar of the main panel and the grounding bar of the controller. The #10 Romex is more than enough. If the 240 box you speak of is for a 250V/15A receptacle for each 1000 watt ballast to be plugged into , then they could have been supplied with #12 (or #14 Romex if your municipality allows #14 for 15 amp branch circuits)Romex with # 14 equipment grounding conductors so you' re good there too. Don't make any bond between the grounding (green) bar and the neutral (ground bar). It's a sub panel and not only do you not need it, you are not supposed to. Also, take note of the difference in terms (ground conductor is a neutral and a grounding conductor is the green).

every calculated value in this statement is wrong lol.