condo organics?

[DIYer]

I live in a two bedroom apartment basically, have a fourteen plant vertical 2k watt LED/HPS/MH/CFL perpetual hp aero grow at the moment. Things have gotten a bit mad scientist over the years, but the jobs getting did. I'm looking to get back to keeping it simple though. Im legal mmj for almost a decade, hydros been fun to play with, but i feel i, and my strain have both peaked, and i want to get serious about taste. I think organic is a road i must take some if my ladies down. I know my strain going in so thats a +. Been reading over the stickies, got some notes taken, I would like to reuse my soil and not buy buy buy, I'm fine with mixing and waiting a month, hell it'll take me at least that long to learn stuff, but heres my first question;.. under what conditions should an organic mix be in to get good? The only outside i have is a patio, i could mix plenty on it, can store in the 76F of the home if it doesn't stink out of a closed container, but it gets almost no sun, its cold and dry out here in the sw right now. Will that even work or just take longer? How long in those conditions?..

At the moment each plant is in its own 20 gal trash can, so i have those but.... second question;.. would folks suggest going air pots/bags, or some other type of container, or just use the 20 gal cans and make sure to not over water? Or cut drain holes in them?

Lastly, RO or tap? Tap is 250ppm, could let it sit then use it. Currently i use a mix of both tap and filtered to hit 100ppm before adding gh flora series nutes to 450ppm. I'm looking forward to just adding water!

any help appreciated!

 

[Twohearted]

Heat will help the soil develop faster, but it will do fine inside. Once you have everything mixed, keep it just a little moist and stir often. You are waiting for a high level of microbes to develop so that the soil will be really alive.
O goodness yes use airpots, they are the best thing on the market, can't find a better pot. You can grow a majorly massive indoor plant in one of the 7 gal ones. Plants grow much larger in an airpot than they will in regular pots or bags, wether round or square.
Also look into making compost teas, I have been doing full organic growing for a while now, and I love it. I am never going back to either hydro, or or using some bs brand name nutes, it's a little more work, and there is a learning curve, but totally worth it in the end.

 

[DIYer]

Thanks for the reply Twohearted. After more reading, i gather it will work inside, just slower. I've experimented with low temps at night in my room, as low as 59F, but nothing makes this kush strain turn purple, so maybe i'll stop letting it get below 70 and just keep it in there since it does get the warmth of the lights durning the day, and smell is contained in the grow room. I totally plan on getting my tea on eventually. I've put myself though a lot of tough learning curves for mj already so im sure i can get this. I'm wondering about a few things though, like whats the right timing for everything? When should one start making teas? And RO, or Tap thats sat out? I know my ladies will show cal/mag def if i go straight RO, would need powered cal/mag. If you had your druthers which would you prefer to water with? I could easily water with any combo of the two as well.

My list of ingredients to buy, straight from subs thread:

• 8 large bags Roots organic by aurora
• 25-50 lbs Wonder Worm earth worm castings soil improver
• 5lb Down to Earth blood meal 12-0-0
• 5lb Happy Frog bat guano
• 5lb Down to Earth fish bone meal 3-16-0
• 1 cup Dolomite lime
• 3/4 cup epsom salt
• 1/2 cup azomite
• 2 Tbs. powdered Humic acid
• If using an RO add 1/2 cup powdered Cal/mag

Am i missing anything to get the soil cooking? Just mix everything above, add water and wait right?

 

[Twohearted]

Looks good. I have heard people talk about getting cal/mag deficiencies using r/o water, but it has never happened to me.
I have never sought a chemical analysis of super soil, but I feel like some of those amendments you use must contain cal and mag.
I have been using r/o water exclusively for my last 3 cycles in soil with teas, and have yet to run into any deficiencies.
Either way, I dont think that adding a half cup of cal/mag to your soil would do any harm so go for it if you use r/o and let me know how it works.
As far as using tea, is use tea as soon as they have a few sets of leaves. When they are young the tea should be mostly microbial.
My early veg tea recipe is:
5 gal r/o water
1 cup worm castings
5 tbs of organic molasses
3 oz of liquid humic
3 oz of liquid kelp

Let them brew for 24-48 hours with a good airstone then good to go.
Lots of people use a tea bag or filter the tea, but I just stir it a lot to keep the substrate evenly suspended while watering to make sure each plant gets a pretty even dose.
This is less of a factor with early growth stage tea since there is no guano in it.
As the plants get bigger I start to add guanos to the tea.
You might not really need to do that though, and when I use super soil I dont really add much in the way of nutes to the tea. Usually of good dose of nitrogen mid veg, then a good dose of phosphorus at the start of flowering. I am not using super soil on my current grow, mostly because I started making the last batch to late and didn't want to wait for it to start the new cycle. So I decided to do a cycle with just teas and top dressing as an experiment/compromise. So far the grow has gone well, I had to play around with it a little at the beginning to get the soil going, but its rocking out now. Out the door right now, ill post more later...

 

[grownbykane]

if you make an 8 bag batch of soil you will need more than 2x20gal trash cans to store it all. a batch of soil that size will fill 4x32gal trash cans with about 6 inches of room left in each.

 

[DIYer]

I like the idea of filtering the water. So if powdered cal/mag is all ill need, i think i'll give it a shot. Hell i might even let my filtered sit out, don't want to take a chance of killing the good guys down below if the filters go bad and i dont taste it in time.
Holy crap grownbykane, you're better than Siri! I was gonna ask her how much that whole grocery list would make but i didn't know how to phrase it.
No really thanks for the math. I was planning on figuring it out but now i don't have to, as much. Also you've assured me the cans wont go to waste, they'll be filled with dirt! And I'm kind of glad at only 20gal a pop, maybe not too heavy. So let me think some on my own now... and of course ask another n00b question or two.

I vert grow, 14 plant perpetual is what the state allows,.. 6 in flowering at all times, was thinking Superoots Air-Pot 7 Gallon Equivalent (14"T by 13.5"W 5.6 gal/21 liters of medium). Too big? I got high and kind of jumped the gun on this purchase one night,.. wanted to try growing something in them they look so darn cool,.. I've got 3 on the way. Thoughts? Order 3 more? Same size or smaller? No height restrictions in my green room fyi.

Tell me if anyone does this,.. I'm thinking id be ok with every one of the 14 im allowed having their very own big pot so i NEVER had to transplant. Part of this flip to soil is to take perpetual growing to its most simplistic maintenance free level i can think up. When i die i don't want my girl to have to worry about medicine, i want growing to be easy for her, simple. Didn't start out growing with this mindset, but things change. Thankfully i have a lot of experience automating things from my hydro years, time to mix the two worlds together a bit

 

[SpicySativa]

Your soil will compost just fine inside. During the first week or so of "cooking", you may smell some of your amendments (fishy fish bone, beefy blood meal smell, neem meal smell, etc), but you shouldn't have any foul smells. After that, there will be a little bit of that fresh, rich soil smell, but I actually enjoy that one. It's the smell of success waiting to happen.

 

[SpicySativa]

Personally, I would recommend at least one transplant. Maybe start in 1-2 gallon smart pots, then transplant to a 5/7/10 gallon when they outgrow their 1-2 gal pots.

Many folks successfully grow in one big pot start to finish, but it will take some practice to kkeep the moisture level correct in a giant pot with a little seedling or clone in it. Probably best to start out in a small pot to develop some roots before giving them 5-10 gallons of soil.

Good luck!

 

[DIYer]

I was thinking the same thing about the watering them all just right. I can see keeping 2 or 3 in cups, but I'm going to make it auto water anyway, not too hard coming from hydro. I'll just need to dial some back with some good adjustable drippers at the air pots i think, sound right? I'm leaning toward ordering more of the above air pots, and starting all 8 in the veg tent in their new homes till harvest. Once the soil is ready, ha,.. time to hit up the star nursery, and maybe the hydro store (hate that place. I hope i can find the Roots organic by aurora locally! That sure seems to be subs main ingredient. 14x5gal=70, so im closer to needing 1/2 the above grocery list. That makes it easy. Could fit it all in three 20 gal cans...


EDIT:
6 out of 10 ain't bad for a quick trip around town. I got all the heavy stuff locally. Ordered 3 of the remaining 4 online, only need cal/mag powder.

 

[Twohearted]

I like the idea of filtering the water. So if powdered cal/mag is all ill need, i think i'll give it a shot. Hell i might even let my filtered sit out, don't want to take a chance of killing the good guys down below if the filters go bad and i dont taste it in time.
Holy crap grownbykane, you're better than Siri! I was gonna ask her how much that whole grocery list would make but i didn't know how to phrase it.
No really thanks for the math. I was planning on figuring it out but now i don't have to, as much. Also you've assured me the cans wont go to waste, they'll be filled with dirt! And I'm kind of glad at only 20gal a pop, maybe not too heavy. So let me think some on my own now... and of course ask another n00b question or two.

I vert grow, 14 plant perpetual is what the state allows,.. 6 in flowering at all times, was thinking Superoots Air-Pot 7 Gallon Equivalent (14"T by 13.5"W 5.6 gal/21 liters of medium). Too big? I got high and kind of jumped the gun on this purchase one night,.. wanted to try growing something in them they look so darn cool,.. I've got 3 on the way. Thoughts? Order 3 more? Same size or smaller? No height restrictions in my green room fyi.

Tell me if anyone does this,.. I'm thinking id be ok with every one of the 14 im allowed having their very own big pot so i NEVER had to transplant. Part of this flip to soil is to take perpetual growing to its most simplistic maintenance free level i can think up. When i die i don't want my girl to have to worry about medicine, i want growing to be easy for her, simple. Didn't start out growing with this mindset, but things change. Thankfully i have a lot of experience automating things from my hydro years, time to mix the two worlds together a bit

Unless you get a really fancy r/o filter you will want to set up reservoir system to store your water anyway. It takes many hours for the filter to make the amount of water you will need. I have a 30 gallon reservoir that I use, and I am usually only using 10-15 gallons when I water, so it all ends up sitting out for at least 24 hours before use.

 

[SpicySativa]

Sitting out WILL NOT dissipate chloramines. They are much more stable than chlorine (which is why they are so popular for municiple water systems). To get rid of those, you need either RO or a carbon filter unit like a Small Boy (with the upgraded carbon cartridge).

 

[DIYer]

I have a Krystal Pure KR10 RO System. I split it off to feed the grow room as well, and the things worked well, under 20ppm for a year. The filters finally went bad so i replaced them with these, but I've got 100ppm from the last 2 filtered tanks.
EDIT:
Only thing i didn't change was the membrane at the top, but its not even mentioned in the filter change instructions here, or changed in the utube vid i watched for changing it all. Maybe i just got cheap filters, they did blow a little carbon dust out at first. Wonder if ill be stuck at 100 for a yr or if it'll get better. hmmm...

 

[SpicySativa]

Sitting out WILL NOT dissipate chloramines. They are much more stable than chlorine (which is why they are so popular for municiple water systems). To get rid of those, you need either RO or a carbon filter unit like a Small Boy (with the upgraded carbon cartridge).

I mis-remembered and mispoke above... RO is NOT an effective way to remove chloramines....

 

[DIYer]

I mis-remembered and mispoke above... RO is NOT an effective way to remove chloramines....

What will if not a good RO system? Do i gotta get in there and pick the chloramines out?

EDIT:
Ya my model doesn't do chloramines, i just checked. Letting it sit out work?

 

[SpicySativa]

Small Boy filter with the upgraded KDF85 catalytic carbon is what I use. Less than $150, and does the job. Not 100% removal, but plenty effective.

 

[DIYer]

This can't be a required purchase for everyone growing in subs soil can it? What do most do about chloramines? Those that do anything that is, ha. Most do 0 im sure.

EDIT:
$88 shipped for a complete system sounds nicer http://www.thefilterguys.biz/chloramine_filters.htm (bottom of page) probably less because they took that word "hydro" off it, ha.. Fish guys usually know their shit, im thinking T5 fuji right now..
..but seriously what do most do? Just let it hit the soil? Is the average level not enough to cause a problem I'm wondering?

EDIT EDIT:
Why not just swap out one of the cheap non solid carbon block filters i just installed for a "$16.00 – CHLORAMINE MASTER FILTER PREMIUM GRADE CATALYTIC GRANULAR ACTIVATED CARBON" from some place?

 

[Twohearted]

I just use a stealth 100 r/o and it works fine for me. No issues in 3 grows with the same filter.
Before I had the filter in home, I used r/o water from the grocery store with supersoil, and it was also fine.

 

[DIYer]

Well I'll be sure to get something I think, not sure this 100 ppm drinking water is even going to fly with my girlfriend. Her taste buds are nuts!! She tells me when its off every time.
Just had a really good space-saving idea. I have ridiculously high ceilings in my place. I'm going to move the plants in my 6 X 6 veg tent (which is currently inside my 11 X 11 grow room) into a 10 X 6 bathroom across the hall. Free up SOOOOOO much room to flower! Flower with organic power!! Not going to put the plants on the ground though, wouldn't have no room to shit, ha! This is where the really high ceilings come in. I'm thinking build 3 really nice looking (possibly cedar?) shelves. 5, 6 and 7 ft roughly, 15" wide, and putting all the plants up there on shelves. I'll take pics when I'm done its gonna be sweet looking! I want all the LEDs in this new veg room, which is going to make it look even sweeter i know how my arrays cast cool shadows, ha. It'll be so much easier to not mess with my current set up as well during this transfer from hydro to sub soil. I'll still have (from pot top) 4' to veg in up there. It's the coolest room in the house, complete with a exhaust fan. Be a bathtub below one shelf, and a sink below the another, a 3rd shelf for some small girls. Should be really easy to run any drainage nice and neat too. Holy crap thats 700 of my 2k watt out of that often warmer than id like room, bonus! Can't wait for this all to take shape!!


EDIT:
420th post!

 

[SpicySativa]

As long as its catalytic carbon, you should be good.

 

[DIYer]

Did some work on what will be my new 10' x 6' x 5' veg area. Video below should do a better job at showing what i was babbling about above.

[video=youtube_share;b1yeHt_chN4]http://youtu.be/b1yeHt_chN4[/video]
I just made 60sq ft appear out of nowhere!! I'll easily be able to lift an air-pot and plant onto the shelves. Strong enough i was walking on them too, which is good because thats how i plan to mount the LEDs up there, ha. RO system is right there under the sink. Gonna hang two ferns from the bottom of the shelves on either side of the tub so my girl can smoke a J and take a hot soak in a jungle of green when this is completed!


EDIT: From what im reading, i do not think my city uses chloramines. And for everyone else, from an article i just read, "Chloramine is now used in about 20% of the United States' drinking water systems". So 1 in 5 will have to pop for Chloramine filters, thankfully not I, yet.