Let's compare

Heads Up

Well-Known Member
This is another of the things about the GOP and republicans in general I do not understand, maybe someone, hopefully a republican, can help me to understand?

I'm watching morning joe being broadcast from south florida. Florida being a strong republican state with an above average amount of retirees and senior citizens many of which have their retirement invested in the stock market probably in some kind of mutual fund.

Under President Bush he took the DJI from over fourteen thousand down to sixty five hundred when he left office and our economy was shedding hundreds of thousands of jobs a month. There's a ten year chart of the DJI so everyone knows I'm not spouting bullshit.

Under President Obama the DJI has gone from that same sixty five hundred to over twelve thousand and as puny as it may seem to many, job growth for over twenty months straight.

If a republican first term president had done what President Obama has done in the stock market alone, would there even be a discussion about him being elected for a second term?

What is it about the above facts that republicans see that I don't that they think President Obama is the worst president ever and doesn't deserve a second term?

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^DJI+Interactive#chart8:symbol=^dji;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

Sorry, us old stoners sometimes forget things, my apologies.
 
there are a dozen threads just like this one, search one of them for answers or follow Uncle Buck or Deprave, they have all the answers you Obama lovers/Ron Paul lovers need.
 

really comfy slippers

Active Member
My biggest issue, He continually ignores the constitution and has a globalist agenda.. For fuck sake hes talking about running the country without consent of Congress. His middle name should be Unconstitutional. Its disgusting.. Never mind what these guys are about to throw at you in the economic department...
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
How about you just shut the fuck up?

It is 7 + months to the election...

ASFAIK NOBODY has changed their vote due to these stupid debates...

Obmacare - Which issued 1100 waivers mostly to Unions and Obama Bundlers has not really kicked in yet. When it does it will finish off the private health industry.

Jobs, Jobs, Jobs... Under Obama the job market has shrunk by almost 3 million... The unemployment rate is realistically 15-16%

Spending.. Obama has pushed a budget where he doubles the Capital gains rate and it only pays for 8% of his spending... He is planning on borrowing 92% of the extra... (no fiscal responsibility)

Those are just a few...
 

jeeba

Well-Known Member
So the stock market went up while jobs went down?Whats more important to you?Having a job so you can invest,or trying to live off your investmesnts?And I dont blame Bush for the Dji nose diving,blame those fucking assholes that crash planes into buildings.Thats what fucked up the stock market.Not to mention the housing predicament was set into play by none other than a democrat"Bill Clinton"
 

Heads Up

Well-Known Member
Private health industry? Finish it off? One can only hope. Let's face it, the private health industry survives on raping people with insurance. Test for this that and the other thing and if the republicans get their way their will be drug testing for every scenario under the sun. If you have a drug in your system it damn well better be through the legal private health care industry and nothing else.

When our health care and by our I mean every american citizen, is subject to a for profit health care system the number one concern of that system is profit not our health care. I am not debating the issue of our health care, only the costs. Yes we have fantastic machines and doctors to work those machines, that's not the issue, the issue is the ever rising cost of health care.

Yes I hope our for profit health care dies a quick death.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
My biggest issue, He continually ignores the constitution and has a globalist agenda.. For fuck sake hes talking about running the country without consent of Congress. His middle name should be Unconstitutional. Its disgusting.. Never mind what these guys are about to throw at you in the economic department...
Can you give me an example of how President Obama ignores the constitution.
 

Heads Up

Well-Known Member
So the stock market went up while jobs went down?Whats more important to you?Having a job so you can invest,or trying to live off your investmesnts?And I dont blame Bush for the Dji nose diving,blame those fucking assholes that crash planes into buildings.Thats what fucked up the stock market.Not to mention the housing predicament was set into play by none other than a democrat"Bill Clinton"
Your first sentence contradicts the facts, so that's a big no starter. Mitt lives off his investments unlike most working people in the US, how in touch is he with everyday americans? The stock market started its nose dive in october of 07', next. Oh yeah, Bill Clinton is the cause of everything. How long has he been out of office?
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Private health industry? Finish it off? One can only hope. Let's face it, the private health industry survives on raping people with insurance. Test for this that and the other thing and if the republicans get their way their will be drug testing for every scenario under the sun. If you have a drug in your system it damn well better be through the legal private health care industry and nothing else.

When our health care and by our I mean every american citizen, is subject to a for profit health care system the number one concern of that system is profit not our health care. I am not debating the issue of our health care, only the costs. Yes we have fantastic machines and doctors to work those machines, that's not the issue, the issue is the ever rising cost of health care.

Yes I hope our for profit health care dies a quick death.
You are an articulate idiot...

You didnt even address most of the points in my post.

If Medicare/Medicade is the government model then at least 30% is lost due to fraud, abuse and waste... That is over 5 times what the profit is in private healthcare. But even though you will get less care with longer waiting times and treatments dictated by bureaucrats who are not doctors nor have any accountability for their actions. So you get a system that is less efficient, more expensive and overall provides worse care. But hey... At least nobody is making a profit.. .(ROFLMFAO!!!)

Why dont we wait till after the primary to even debate the horrific job Obama has done ok? I think that 4 months is enough.
 

really comfy slippers

Active Member
Can you give me an example of how President Obama ignores the constitution.
Ordering the death of a American citizen, Ignoring due process.. NDAA, again Ignoring due process.. Coming out and basiclly threating congress saying he will work without them via executive order, which I will argue is treason.. Acts of war without even consent from congress. Examples that come to my mind
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Ordering the death of a American citizen, Ignoring due process.. NDAA, again Ignoring due process.. Coming out and basiclly threating congress saying he will work without them via executive order, which I will argue is treason.. Acts of war without even consent from congress. Examples that come to my mind
Apponting Recess positions while congress is not in recess.
 

budlover13

King Tut
Can you give me an example of how President Obama ignores the constitution.
Not sure what the press conference was about at this moment (just awoke from a shitty 3 1/2 hr nights sleep, sorry) but i distinctly recall Obama stating that he didn't have to worry about the Constitution. i believe it was in regards to actions in the middle east but not sure.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Can you give me an example of how President Obama ignores the constitution.
I can answer that one for him. When he lied to the armed forces about getting congressional approval for declaring war upon Libya. Not only is that unconstitutional but an act of treason during war time, which carries the death penalty. But no one cares because he's King Soetoro, our fucking Lord and Savior!
 

mame

Well-Known Member
You are an articulate idiot...

You didnt even address most of the points in my post.

If Medicare/Medicade is the government model then at least 30% is lost due to fraud, abuse and waste... That is over 5 times what the profit is in private healthcare. But even though you will get less care with longer waiting times and treatments dictated by bureaucrats who are not doctors nor have any accountability for their actions. So you get a system that is less efficient, more expensive and overall provides worse care. But hey... At least nobody is making a profit.. .(ROFLMFAO!!!)

Why dont we wait till after the primary to even debate the horrific job Obama has done ok? I think that 4 months is enough.
that statistic is wholly innaccurate. According to politifact, waste and fraud in medicare/medicaid is in line with the private sector at 3-9%.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/27/tom-coburn/coburn-says-20-percent-every-medicare-dollar-goes-/
 

mame

Well-Known Member
Under Obama the job market has shrunk by almost 3 million...
Only if you count the millions of jobs lost in the recession, before Obama even had a chance to enact any policies. C'mon, man! Why so partisan? We're all big kids here, IDK why you have to spout that misleading bullshit...
 

mame

Well-Known Member
Also, Obama's recess appointment is only technically in violation of the constitution because of some bullshit procedural tactics by the Republicans to avoid having to actually go into recess - even when they're clearly not in session - and thusly they avoid giving Obama the ability to appoint his man. Just more partisan drivel, IMO, because you and I both know the president shouldn't be barred by technicalities like that when Obama clearly acted in the spirit of the constitution in making his recess appointment anyway. Because after all, you can say congress was not in recess - but if it's not in session, it's in recess, no matter what you call it normal human beings see it for what it is... a dirty political tactic.
 

deprave

New Member
Hey, I am not republican but I will gladly copy/paste some of the issues I take with obama that I have written on other threads. So here is the issues we take from a libertarian perspective. So here is to get this thread started:


Passed NDAA - Allowing for indefinite detention of American Citizens

marijuana - Claimed he wouldn't use DOJ resources to go after medical marijuana - this continued even after holder memo.

Unions - Said if our collective bargaining rights are threatened he will march on the protest line with us, Collective Bargaining threatened in Wisconsin and he does Nothing!

War - Started more unconstitutional wars without consoluting congress.

Corporations - Appointed former goldman sachs ceo's to his staff on the order of more than a dozen - inlcuding putting Tim Geitner in charge of treasury. Why does he expect the very people who exploited the markets regulations to regulate it any better?

Obamacare - Gave nebraska millions of dollars in a backroom deal known as the corn husker kickback, allegedly many people are losing jobs because of this. It makes sense to me that it would increase the cost of healthcare for average americans.

Poverty - Did nothing to address poverty and inner-city problems and only made it worse at best by doing things such as pushing for mandatory high school graduation.

TSA - Approves of the TSA's handling of citizens, not treating senior citizens and children with the respect they deserve. The TSA as balooned into some kind of monstrous entity and has not made us safer.

Guatanamo - Failed at closing down the bay...Another one of his campaign promises.

Afghanistan - Failed to get us out of Afghanistan.

Iraq - Stuck wish the bush plan and didn't get us out earlier.

Patroit Act - Continued it. Signed, Sealed, and Delivered. Tyranny.

Fast and The Furious - continued some more bush era programs such as the fast and the furious a program which eric holder was aware of that shipped guns into mexico in exchange for cocaine. The increased drug war tensions sponsored by the DOJ has lead to millions of dead mexicans and many American lives ruined.

Transparency - Promised more of this yet we get less of it. From censoring out or questions and petitions a greatly increased number of classified documents and overnight bills, wars, signing statements,etc....

Citizens United - Says one thing and does another on this as well, corporations are not people yet Obama is supportive of this with his actions. Corporations now have more right then people including 1st amendment protections.

Human Rights and the Rule of Law - Obama becomes the first president to execute an american citizen without trial.

Torture - Obama continues Bush era torture policies all while paying us lip service that he will stop this.

Homeland Security - Continued to grow this monster that violates our constitutional rights daily.

misc things obama lied about said:
I’ve done more for Israel’s security than any President ever
Obama aided Islamic Extremists take over of Egypt/ Libya – Weapons pour into Gaza
Virtually every Senate Republican voted against the tax cut last week
Examiner
“Every idea that we’ve put forward are ones that traditionally have been supported by Democrats and Republicans alike.”
Like Raising taxes?
Obama met highly qualified out of work teacher Robert Baroz
He wasn’t out of work and Obama never met him.
GOP Responsible for Obama Jobs Bill Not Passing
Dems Rejected Jobs Bill
You have 80 percent of the American people who support a balanced approach. Eighty percent of the American people support an approach that includes revenues and includes cuts. So the notion that somehow the American people aren’t sold is not the problem
Gallup Poll: Only 69%
These are obligations that the United States has taken on in the past. Congress has run up the credit card, and we now have an obligation to pay our bills.
Looks like it’s been incurred mostly in the years of Obama
Jobs Bill Paid for
Seems not so much Paid for
Then you’ve got their(GOP)which is dirtier air, dirtier water, less people with health insurance
Barack Obama, campaiging in Asheville, NC, 10/17/11
I cannot guarantee that those checks go out on August 3rd if we haven’t resolved this issue. Because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it.
American.com
USA producing more oil than ever before
Petroleum Insights
Fence between US and Mexico is “Practically Complete”
Department of Homeland Security says 5%
Rich doesn’t pay their fair share.
National Taxpayers Union
Lies During Second Year

No signing statements to nullify or undermine congressional instructions as enacted into law
Obama Lies to Keep Czars
No “boots” on the ground Libya
Anyone that has worked with the AC-130 gunship can tell you, you need spotters to let aircraft know where the targets are. Usually it is Special Forces, Rangers etc trained for this mission. It’s CIA Agents in Libya on the ground
Reform will also rein in the abuse and excess that nearly brought down our financial system. It will finally bring transparency to the kinds of complex, risky transactions that helped trigger the financial crisis.
Obama Lies About Financial Reform Bill
All Americans WILL BE were, “surprised, disappointed and angry” about lockerbie bomber
Obama Memo
I will not rest until the BP Oil Spill stops
Obama’s Schedule
The health care bill will not increase the deficit by one dime.
Campaign and Presidency
If you like the health care plan you have you can keep it
TownHall
“Under our plan, no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions, and federal conscience laws will remain in place.”
U.S. Capitol, Washington, D.C., September 9, 2009.
ObamaCare Fee is not a new tax
Obama denies healthcare is a new tax on all Americans
We have run out of places in the US to drill for oil.
Obama’s oval office speech in June 2010
Now suddenly if you don’t have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you can be harassed, that’s something that could potentially happen.
Arizona Immigration Law
Doctors choose amputation because they get better compensation. Greedy Doctors taking out tonsils for more money.
Claims never documented
The Health Care Package will pay for itself
Time
Republicans don’t have a single idea that’s different from George Bush’s ideas — not one.
Hmm Immigration?
We shouldn’t Mandate the purchase of health care
Democratic Debate Lies
I am immediately instituting PayGo “Pay as you go”
Said during a speech immediately after the Trillion Dollar “Shovel Ready” bill.
I got the Message from Massachusetts
Daily Bail
Lies During First Year

We began by passing a Recovery Act that has already saved or created over 150,000 jobs.” – caught cooking the books and now changed to ‘jobs supported’ versus ‘created/saved’
AP fact Checker
Number one, we inherited a $1.3 trillion deficit. … That wasn’t me.” – Congress, under Democratic control in 2007 and 2008, controlled the purse strings that led to the deficit Obama inherited.Obama supported the emergency bailout package in Bush’s final months — a package Democratic leaders wanted to make bigger.
AP fact Checker
Collective salvation
Obama calls himself a Christian
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
Obama Inauguration. 20 Jan 2009
Cut Deficit in Half by end of first term
Associated Press Video
Health Care deals will be covered on C-span
Obama Lies
As President I will recognize the Armenian Genocide
ABC
Recovery Act will save or create jobs
ABC News
Unemployment rate will be 8.5% without stimulus.
Obama Lies
No Earmarks in the $787 Billion Stimulus
CNN
I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care plan
Specator.Org
We have launched a housing plan that will help responsible families facing the threat of foreclosure lower their monthly payments and refinance their mortgages.
Obama Lies
I am not somebody who promotes same-sex marriage.
NPR
Guantanamo bay to be closed within a year
Council on Foreign Relations.
Won’t Raise taxes on those making less than 250,000 per year.
Businessweek: Obama Agnostic on taxes
List of Tax Promise Violations
2008 Campaign Lies

My Parents met in the march on Selba
Obama was born 4 years before they met?
Take our nuclear weapons off hair-trigger alert
ArmsControl.org – “the current alert posture … should not be changed”
Mr. Ayers as “a guy who lives in my neighborhood,” but “not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis.
News Busters
I had a uncle who was one of the, who was part of the first American troops to go into Auschwitz and liberate the concentration camps
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
Obama campaign would accept public funding
ABC
Minimum Wage will increase to $9.50/hr
A Socialist
Ann Dunham spent the months before her death in 1995 fighting with insurance companies that sought to deny her the coverage she needed to pay for treatment.
Mounting Heath Care Lies
Didn’t know Jeremiah Wright was Radical
Dreams of My Father – A radical Socialist.
Would have the most transparent administration in History
Cato Institute
We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way.
Boston Globe
I have visited all 57 states.
Snopes
I’ll get rid of earmarks
Source: Any bill passed during presidency
When a bill lands on my Desk, The American people will have 5 days to review it before I sign it.
Campaign Speech
My father served in World War II.
The Videos and the Facts
Have troops out of Iraq by March 31, 2009
News Video
Seniors Making less than 50,000 will not have to pay taxes
YouTube
Would not vote for any bill supporting troop funding without a firm withdrawal commitment from the Bush Administration.
He has done nothing but continue the Bush admins strategy and to explain how the “surges total failure” has now become his greatest achievement.
Present Votes Are Common In Illinois
NPR
I Won Michigan
Huffington Post
I won Nevada
The Nation
I don’t Have Lobbyists
US News
My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad
Crooks and Liars
I Have Always Been Against Iraq
Washington Post
My Wife Didn’t Mean What She Said About Pride In Country
CNN
Barack was never an ACORN trainer and never worked for ACORN in any other capacity.
Obama Campaign Video
I Barely Know Rezko
Sun Times
My Church Is Like Any Other Christian Church
ABC News
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
that statistic is wholly innaccurate. According to politifact, waste and fraud in medicare/medicaid is in line with the private sector at 3-9%.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/27/tom-coburn/coburn-says-20-percent-every-medicare-dollar-goes-/

Bullshit... Even politicians admit the fraud and waste is over 20%.

Look, the question was why was Obama so unpopular and was based solely on the stock market numbers and the *supposed jobs* created by this fact.

My IRA is still down 3,000 over last year. I am supposed to get excited about that?

I clearly listed numerous reasons why he sucks and should be thrown out. 2 or more other posters have addressed serious issues and reasons for that.

The OP and you have chosen to nit pick and argue about a minority of them. I am not really interested in what you think about it. I seriously dont fucking care.

Obama needs to go for all those reasons listed and more.
 
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