Quantitative Airstone Test. an end to the hype

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
But doesn't the OP state that he pretty much achieved maximum DO with all the stones? A 6" stone cannot work better than a 4" stone if the 4" stone reaches max DO.

I guess one could test how long each stone needs to reach max DO but does it matter as long as the stones provide O2 faster than the roots can absorb it?
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Ummm, jump right in and tell me the test is flawed. Thanks bro. Let's get one thing straight, if a test isn't designed to test something YOU want, doesn't mean it's flawed. I tested the performance of different air stones at oxygenating bubble buckets using a commercial pump. I'm running dwc with 4 gallon buckets.

I can't test all the different combinations of pumps and stones and different sized containers. The 4" stone did test below the 6" in 2 of the 3 temperatures. The one where it tested lower, it was .10 lower. That could be a slight diff in temp, meter float, anything really.

I did the best I could given the materials I had. I am beginimg to think that other people don't do more tests like this because even if I had flow meters, pressure sensors, infrared thermometers and a gas chomatagraph to measure DO, there would still be someone that would throw out a nuh ugh. Or "the pressure is different, the test is null". As I said before, it DOESN'T MATTER that the pressure is different, maximum saturation was easily attained by even the cheapest stone. The pluses and minusus of some of the stones was discussed given their even performance.

Maybe they do work differently with small pumps. Maybe there would be a difference if I threw them in a 50 gallon Rez. I didn't test that as I'm not using a standing 50 gallon Rez nor do I buy grow gear at PetCo. Maybe I'll do a head to head between two stones using a cheap two outlet pump. I'm certainly not going to fuck with 100's of gallons of water though.
 

Mrfootball420

Well-Known Member
But doesn't the OP state that he pretty much achieved maximum DO with all the stones? A 6" stone cannot work better than a 4" stone if the 4" stone reaches max DO.

I guess one could test how long each stone needs to reach max DO but does it matter as long as the stones provide O2 faster than the roots can absorb it?


ok,so I checked out DO maximums at a given temps ....http://www.dnr.mo.gov/env/esp/wqm/DOSaturationTable.htm

There is no elevation given for those rates but in general, they track exactly with my measured results...

67 degrees...9.26 ml/l
77 degrees...8.24 ml/l
83 degrees...7.81 ml/l

thats exactly why the test is flawed. you could simply use bigger totes to show which stone actually produces the most DO based on pure volume. that would be the most accurate and easiest way imo. and not everyone is using 5 gallon buckets either. some are using multiple 18 gallon totes that carry volume over 100 gallons.

or you could test the water after every minite and monitor the gradual climb in the DO level to see which one hits maximum DO first knd of like you suggested but thats a lot more work.
 

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
Could you test the rate in which each stone creates max DO? Not that it would matter if they all do though.
 

Mrfootball420

Well-Known Member
Ummm, jump right in and tell me the test is flawed. Thanks bro. Let's get one thing straight, if a test isn't designed to test something YOU want, doesn't mean it's flawed. I tested the performance of different air stones at oxygenating bubble buckets using a commercial pump. I'm running dwc with 4 gallon buckets.

I can't test all the different combinations of pumps and stones and different sized containers. The 4" stone did test below the 6" in 2 of the 3 temperatures. The one where it tested lower, it was .10 lower. That could be a slight diff in temp, meter float, anything really.

I did the best I could given the materials I had. I am beginimg to think that other people don't do more tests like this because even if I had flow meters, pressure sensors, infrared thermometers and a gas chomatagraph to measure DO, there would still be someone that would throw out a nuh ugh. Or "the pressure is different, the test is null". As I said before, it DOESN'T MATTER that the pressure is different, maximum saturation was easily attained by even the cheapest stone. The pluses and minusus of some of the stones was discussed given their even performance.

Maybe they do work differently with small pumps. Maybe there would be a difference if I threw them in a 50 gallon Rez. I didn't test that as I'm not using a standing 50 gallon Rez nor do I buy grow gear at PetCo. Maybe I'll do a head to head between two stones using a cheap two outlet pump. I'm certainly not going to fuck with 100's of gallons of water though.
no reason to get bent out of shape but the test if flawed. every stone you have is rated above oxygenating 4-5 gallons. did you think the stones didnt work? of course the were going to oxygenate that small amount of water if you let them run long enough. but how long did it take to accomplish that? which stone actually outperformed them all in creating maximum DO levels quickest?

its just not an accurate measure for anything but a 5 gallon bucket rig and im sure those people really appreciate that(i know i do) but you certainly didnt "end the hype" imo. you just showed that for a small bucket you will reach max DO rates with just about any air stone and its a good test.

im sorry if i offended you in anyway and i again thank you for all of your hard work.
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Sorry if i take offense but if you had spent all night hunched over buckets, recording numbers, taking pictures, and then posting everything and have someone just come up and say. "its flawed". You would probably be a little defensive as well. Again, I wasn't trying to test big reservoirs.

The point is that every stone is rated above oxygenating 4-5 gallons. therefore buying fancy stones or putting multiple stones in a bucket is a waste of money and energy.

I would anticipate that using a commercial pump, any stone could also easily oxygenate a bigger reservoir. Thus the hype that you need a micro difuser or boss hog or any other expensive device is bunk. Your not talking that much of a volume increase from 5 to 18 or even 30 gallons.

To prove this point I went down and measured my flower rez. There is about 30 gallons in there. I have a single 2" round airstone in there driven by one outlet of a whisper 100 pump. I don't know the rating on the whisper as it is not listed anywhere but it ain't much cause its only a 10 watt pump. and YES, the outlets are independent so it doesn't matter what stone is on the other end.

76.5 degrees , 8.88 ml/l Tested three separate times, calibrating before each time. So there you go. A relatively cheap stone and a weak pump has achieved maximum saturation in 30 gallons.

The test was as scientific as it needed to be. It's not my masters thesis. There are a myriad of variables you could account for but in the end, I don't feel it matters. I determined that the cheap stones are plenty to keep DO rates at their maximums. Therefore, I will never ever never think "hmm, I wonder if I would get better results if I used ________".

Tell me you never thought "man, I wish I could afford those micro diffusers, those things look uber professional" I USED to think that.
 

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
I appreciate you demonstrating without a doubt that people buying those expensive stones are wasting their money.

I run a 1 stone per 3-4 gallons of solution. This test is perfect for me. Glad I didn't blow cash on the other stones.
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
I was actually surprised that my 30 gallon rez is maxed out with the 2" round and cheesy pump. I was running two in there. Now I'll just keep the other line in my beneficial bucket. :)
 

Mrfootball420

Well-Known Member
Sorry if i take offense but if you had spent all night hunched over buckets, recording numbers, taking pictures, and then posting everything and have someone just come up and say. "its flawed". You would probably be a little defensive as well. Again, I wasn't trying to test big reservoirs.

The point is that every stone is rated above oxygenating 4-5 gallons. therefore buying fancy stones or putting multiple stones in a bucket is a waste of money and energy.

I would anticipate that using a commercial pump, any stone could also easily oxygenate a bigger reservoir. Thus the hype that you need a micro difuser or boss hog or any other expensive device is bunk. Your not talking that much of a volume increase from 5 to 18 or even 30 gallons.

To prove this point I went down and measured my flower rez. There is about 30 gallons in there. I have a single 2" round airstone in there driven by one outlet of a whisper 100 pump. I don't know the rating on the whisper as it is not listed anywhere but it ain't much cause its only a 10 watt pump. and YES, the outlets are independent so it doesn't matter what stone is on the other end.

76.5 degrees , 8.88 ml/l Tested three separate times, calibrating before each time. So there you go. A relatively cheap stone and a weak pump has achieved maximum saturation in 30 gallons.

The test was as scientific as it needed to be. It's not my masters thesis. There are a myriad of variables you could account for but in the end, I don't feel it matters. I determined that the cheap stones are plenty to keep DO rates at their maximums. Therefore, I will never ever never think "hmm, I wonder if I would get better results if I used ________".

Tell me you never thought "man, I wish I could afford those micro diffusers, those things look uber professional" I USED to think that.

i have definately thought that, we all have.

i know you busted your ass on this test and i know it was a lot of hard work. and at first i wasnt going to comment but im sure glad i did now. as a result you went and checked your 30g rez and the results of that have added even more evidence to your test. i find it very comforting that your rez is is supporting max DO levels with such a small stone and pump, im sold.

thanks bro, excellent work....
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
I love an online bromance. :)

helllraizer, are you aware that if you like every single post that you read that when you actually do like a post...its utterly meaningless.
 

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
Damn, I opened this thread this morning when there were only like 2 posts. Great test as far as I'm concerned. This shit is spensive enough already. Please someone talk me out of hortilux bulbs, lol.
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Awesome test, LF! Thanks for busting your ass and sharing the results with us. I never would have thought that a 30 gallon rez would reach max DO with 10 watts, wtf? Love your sense of humor, even with the haters. Tried to +rep you again, but apparently I just did for something else, so it won't let me again so soon. I hate that shit, 'spread some rep around to some douche bags before giving it to someone who deserves it again'...
 

Mrfootball420

Well-Known Member
Awesome test, LF! Thanks for busting your ass and sharing the results with us. I never would have thought that a 30 gallon rez would reach max DO with 10 watts, wtf? Love your sense of humor, even with the haters. Tried to +rep you again, but apparently I just did for something else, so it won't let me again so soon. I hate that shit, 'spread some rep around to some douche bags before giving it to someone who deserves it again'...

without the so called hater you wouldnt have known that a 30g rez could reach max DO with a 10w pump and a 2in airstone.... your welcome!!!
 
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