The 'Official' Do Not Vote For Obama In 2012 - Thread. Don't Want Him Back N Office!

[newworldicon]

I would be the happiest dude on the planet if the U.S. took a lesser role on the world stage. The problem with that however, is that our politicians seem to have an ego problem (U.S.A. #1 lololol)

You're right.

The 50's and 60's could be described as the only time in American history when the American dream could be achieved by anyone who tried with very few being left out (as long as you ignore civil rights issues). So what was the key to this prosperity? Well, as I've argued before - the New Deal had a big hand in creating this prosperity as well as WW2 - both leading towards mass redistribution.

What a lot of people don't realize though, is what kind of actions the government took in WW2 that had a huge effect on the 50's and 60's. The policies, for lack of a better term, were socialist in nature. The era in which this happened - just before, during and after WW2 - was called the "Great Compression"... A long ago forgotten time when there was an unprecedented redistribution of wealth from the top to the bottom. Prices were regulated by the OPA (office of Price Administration, in effect until shortly after the war ended), many sectors of the economy were suspended or under the direct control of the government(for example, auto manufacturing plants were used for wartime production instead) and top earners were taxed at rates never before(or after for that matter) seen percentages (over 90%).

All this time, unions started to really gain power (much of this due to New Deal policies) and once WW2 ended... They flexed that power. because of the heavy government regulation that was needed in WW2, there was a shortage in certain commodities (like cars) which led to a shortage in workers... The unions know how market forces work - they demanded higher pay(there were strikes, etc... and the government eventually passed a couple laws to limit union power a bit). Also, because of the wage controls - employers began to more commonly offer employer attached health insurance... etc. as a way to attract the best workers despite not being allowed to pay them a better wage, this practice (offering benefits to attract better workers) became common is is still prevalent today - mostly because post-war unions made sure those benefits weren't ever lost.

Essentially the New Deal and WW2 created the perfect conditions for upwards pressure in wages for the average American... Which is something that - at least dating back the early 80's - market forces alone have failed to produce (wages since 1980 have been stagnant, rising barely at the same rate as inflation). It sounds like "socialism" and in a lot of ways the U.S. did engage in socialism during war time... But the facts are there and what we all see from the 50's and 60's is the product. It was the American dream..

I think the new deal worked because of the time and place but would something similar suit a much more advanced and complicated society today...I question that but I get the jist of what you are saying.

With regards to egos....I think the movie "Team America" sums it up perfectly!

 

[mame]

I think the new deal worked because of the time and place but would something similar suit a much more advanced and complicated society today...I question that but I get the jist of what you are saying.

With regards to egos....I think the movie "Team America" sums it up perfectly!

We'll see I guess. The Health care reform act has been regarded by many progressives as a modern day New Deal policy. At the very least HC reform could cause the medical industry to expand even faster than it has been since medicare. We'll just have to wait and see...

oh and "AMERICA FUCK YEAH!"

 

[TheDemocrat]

the reason the new deal worked was because the majority of americans were hurt by the depression. the reason the economy is not getting fixed faster now is because not that many americans were/are hurt by the recession. ford sold 100,000 vehicles last month.

 

[deprave]

I will not vote for Obama and anyone who does is voting away our freedom.


[video=youtube;JI4-lad49BA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI4-lad49BA[/video]

 

[Kartel Kriminal]

This is nothing more than a slander thread. OBAMA 2012! I'll be sure to make a thread slandering the canidate you favor once the republicans nominate their new puppet.

 

[Serapis]

Obama clearly said in the debates that the Iraq war was wrong and he would end it as soon as was militarily possible. He stated he would increase troop levels in Afghanistan. He never said if elected, he would pull out of Afghanistan. He did give a timetable for an Iraq withdrawal, and the Iraqi's used his statements during negotiations. This pissed off some of the Bush administration, because Obama was already having an influence and hadn't even been elected yet. The draft order was signed by Bush administration and Iraqis, extending our military presence until the end of this year. How can others take this to mean that he promised he'd pull us out sooner? He never made that statement. He indicated before being elected that Dec 31, 2011 was his target date, unless things went sour. I'm still awaiting the OP to back this claim with quotes from Obama, but he won't because he can't. The discrepancies come when Obama haters cite the pledge to pull troops from Iraq within 16 months if elected. That pledge was made BEFORE BUSH and Maliki signed the agreement to keep troops until end of 2011. What is Obama supposed to do now? renege on the agreement he DIDN'T sign and then open himself up to your criticisms that his actions cost us victory in Iraq if civil war breaks out? YES, Obama stated he'd have troops out within 16 months... that was before the US and Iraq signed on to a timetable...

I hardly consider the large stimulus package as 'ignoring' the economy. It was the VERY first bill he signed. The reason for the health care reform was to stave off huge expenses in medicare and medicaid. The GAO projects savings of over 10 billion per year because of that legislation. Again, you guys won;t address the fact that Mitt Romney did it in his state and it was hailed as a true model for health care reform. But when Obama does it on a national level, everyone in the GOP wants to crucify him. Why is it good for Mass but not the rest of the country? Why did Mitt get accolades and Obama get shit? Someone please explain it to me?

The economy has hardly been forgotten. Trips abroad to smooth relations, new trade agreements, stimulus to create jobs, retain teachers and police and fire, build high speed rail, improve nations power grid, explore renewable resources.... these all sound like solid projects to me.

Half of Obama's campaign was geared around these wars, which we are still in. He promised we would be out of them by now and to boot we are in Libya with no clear objective.



That is not even close to the only reason. However, one thing I agree on is that dragging planned parenthood to the forefront of this debate was stupid. They will never learn, unfortunately.



Ok, we've been running a deficit for a long time. Obama put his foot on the gas at the wrong time. While he clearly can't be blamed for all of it, he sure has been spend happy at the wrong time. Not to mention that sooner or later...he will get around to jobs and the economy. He spent his wad jamming healthcare down everyone's throat while basically ignoring the economy.

 

[Serapis]

And what freedoms have you lost? What about the elimination of Dont Ask Dont Tell?, or the refusal to defend a repressive Defense of Marriage Act? These actually increase freedoms.... please explain how you have lost freedom....

I will not vote for Obama and anyone who does is voting away our freedom.


[video=youtube;JI4-lad49BA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI4-lad49BA[/video]

 

[Serapis]

No one here has yet made any points against Obama and backed them up with any reliable fact our sources.... you are correct, it is simply a bash thread and they are venting their hate.

This is nothing more than a slander thread. OBAMA 2012! I'll be sure to make a thread slandering the canidate you favor once the republicans nominate their new puppet.

 

[mame]

No one here has yet made any points against Obama and backed them up with any reliable fact our sources.... you are correct, it is simply a bash thread and they are venting their hate.

pretty much.

 

[BudMcLovin]

No one here has yet made any points against Obama and backed them up with any reliable fact our sources.... you are correct, it is simply a bash thread and they are venting their hate.

It boils down to your prospective. If you’re a big government supporter, Obama’s your man till the end because he defaults to government for the answer to problems. If you smaller government and believe in personal responsibility then Obama’s not for you.

My problem with Obama is the same problems I’ve had with the progressive agenda. I don’t want government in the relationship with my doctor. I don’t want government telling me what to eat, or drink or smoke. I don’t believe taxes should be used to “spread the wealth around” I believe they are for government revenue. I have a problem with racial quotas. I have a problem with government requiring me to buy any product or service. I have a problem with the government spending tax dollars on public art. I could go on but who wants to read another long rant.

 

[Serapis]

You share a lot of opinions, but I never see any facts from you. I take pride in personal responsibility and I want a smaller government and I like the job Obama is doing. I guess not everyone is going to fit into your neatly defined baskets. Aren't national problems in the realm of solving by our government?

What is the "progressive agenda"? You guys toss the phrase around a lot, but I have yet to see it defined. How does Gov't get involved in the relationship with your Dr? The govt provides nutritional guidelines based on studies and professional opinions. No one is making you eat or drink anything. Where were your complaints when Mitt Romney forced health care coverage on everyone in Mass? Obama agrees with you on racial quotas. I agree with you on art.

It boils down to your prospective. If you’re a big government supporter, Obama’s your man till the end because he defaults to government for the answer to problems. If you smaller government and believe in personal responsibility then Obama’s not for you.

My problem with Obama is the same problems I’ve had with the progressive agenda. I don’t want government in the relationship with my doctor. I don’t want government telling me what to eat, or drink or smoke. I don’t believe taxes should be used to “spread the wealth around” I believe they are for government revenue. I have a problem with racial quotas. I have a problem with government requiring me to buy any product or service. I have a problem with the government spending tax dollars on public art. I could go on but who wants to read another long rant.

 

[canndo]

Shall we?

I want government involved in whether the doctor I talk to is qualified and able and I want government involved in certifying the drugs the doctor gives me as being effective and relatively safe - now is that "big government" is that a liberal agenda?

I want government, furthermore, to keep me from eating things that will make me sick or dead. I want government to mandate that those who make drinks or smokes for me tell me everything there is in that drink or smoke and I want an impartial group (government) to tell me with some degree of professionality, what those things will do to me if I eat them or drink them. Is that such a bad old progressive demand?

I know that unless all people get the exact same paycheck every month any tax system will in effect "spread the wealth around" and am willing to let a few extra dollars come out of my paycheck in order that those who need help will get it.

I have a problem with government requiring me to buy someone Else's product or service. When it is a mandate that no one be turned away from an emergency room even if they cannot afford it, I am being forced to pay for their care at the highest possible cost. I want my government to make them pay for their own care. I would imagine that this isn't a particularly "progressive" agenda.

I have a problem defining "public art" so I really can't comment on that. I am curious about your rant however.

 

[stumps]

Serapis, what is it you like about what Obama is doing? As far as I can see he will go down as one of the worst leaders the country has ever had. He seems hell bent on brining the US down. I can't wait to see what kind of crap ends up in office next. As much as I dislike Obama I don't see anyone better in our future. I could be a full blown Rep if they lost the god crap.

 

[mame]

Serapis, what is it you like about what Obama is doing? As far as I can see he will go down as one of the worst leaders the country has ever had. He seems hell bent on brining the US down. I can't wait to see what kind of crap ends up in office next. As much as I dislike Obama I don't see anyone better in our future. I could be a full blown Rep if they lost the god crap.

What exactly is it that Obama has done to bring about these feelings from you? What policies do you disagree with and why?

 

[Windsblow]

Blah blah blag

 

[newworldicon]

Most people opposed to Obama on this thread just feel with utter conviction that he is in the pockets of the NWO, banking cartel, financial ogliarchs...call it what you will, and denial of that fact means that anything further that you want to debate with regards to what he can has or will do vs. hasn't or can't do is completely irrelevant. It merely keep the minions busy.

But how do you convince people who debunk this as "theory and conspiracy" that this has more bearing than what he or any other President would promise or deliver.

You need a President that has come from the people, not from the corruption that is the financial Ogliarchs.

Until you all see that you can yak about Obama till the cows come home.

In fact I would like to see Obama do another term if only to spite you pro Obama's when he fails or sends your sons to war again in the name of freedom.

I don't distrust Obama for what he does at home, I distrust him for being a part of the imperialist regime.

Justify that Obamalovers!!

 

[mame]

I don't distrust Obama for what he does at home, I distrust him for being a part of the imperialist regime.

Justify that Obamalovers!!

How do you expect any other president to be different? Considering several presidents have been accused of "being part of the imperialist regime" I could argue that in that respect they are all the same; Wouldn't logic then compel you to vote based on "what he does at home"? How's that for not making it about "theory and conspiracy"?

Now, if you dont agree with his domestic policy, than dont vote for him but at least put some serious thought into it. Personally, I try to play devil's advocate with myself when doing anything important (like voting or taking out a loan or w/e)

 

[londonfog]

It boils down to your prospective. If you’re a big government supporter, Obama’s your man till the end because he defaults to government for the answer to problems. If you smaller government and believe in personal responsibility then Obama’s not for you.

My problem with Obama is the same problems I’ve had with the progressive agenda. I don’t want government in the relationship with my doctor. I don’t want government telling me what to eat.

Hell yeah ...Phuck the FDA if I want to eat some meat or fish that has went bad ......its my American right....don't inspect nothing for me government..I will take my chances...WTF

 

[newworldicon]

How do you expect any other president to be different? Considering several presidents have been accused of "being part of the imperialist regime" I could argue that in that respect they are all the same; Wouldn't logic then compel you to vote based on "what he does at home"? How's that for not making it about "theory and conspiracy"?

Now, if you dont agree with his domestic policy, than dont vote for him but at least put some serious thought into it. Personally, I try to play devil's advocate with myself when doing anything important (like voting or taking out a loan or w/e)

I don't expect any other American President coming from the present channels you call the democrats or republicans to be any different and you are right, most of them have been part of the "regime" but are you then in essence resigning yourself to the fact that you can do nothing about it? Keep making the same mistake then.

I'm not American so I don't give a rats arse about your domestic policies, it does not affect me but my point of view as a world citizen is get him and every other slimey prick that has corrupted your government and country out of positions of power because whether I like it or not America since your hey day as we discussed the other day has taken upon itself to be the guardians of the world in respect to freedom and democracy, yet who has it helped on a global scale, America no one else!!

Do you really think that fixing all your homegrown problems will sort your country out when most of your energy is wasted on foreign shores, that is cure before prevention.

If every American citizen stood up and said enough to these foreign wars, enough of the government spending in these areas, what would your budgets look like then, what shape would your internals look like then.

Stop looking at the end of your noses, you are merely being short sighted and they want that from you.

Mame...can I ask you personally, is the NWO and all the shit it stands for a load of nonsense, is it crap that conspiracy theorists invent to occupy their days with, is it nonsense that your capitals halls are diseased by these people, I ask you where you stand with this?

No disrespect but if you cannot acknowledge their existence and the crucial role they play in Obama, your foreign policies, your domestic policies then I feel I cannot have a discussion with you.

I care little for Obama either way, you guys can argue over him all day, I care about how manipulated your government is, the institution, not the individual!

 

[Serapis]

I've already listed many of his accomplishments earlier in the thread, do tell though, since you have labeled him as the worst president ever, why? Please be specific and detailed and provide examples to substantiate your claim... to state that anyone could be worse than Bush or Carter really piques my interest, please explain....

Serapis, what is it you like about what Obama is doing? As far as I can see he will go down as one of the worst leaders the country has ever had. He seems hell bent on brining the US down. I can't wait to see what kind of crap ends up in office next. As much as I dislike Obama I don't see anyone better in our future. I could be a full blown Rep if they lost the god crap.