Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks

[OhYesTheDopeMan]

Hey Al glad you're back! If you remember me, I have the EXACT same setup as you but Im soil, but I do also have 2 1000W for the flowering area and have 4-5 moms under a 400W, and my clone box is a two tier adjustable rack can holds hundreds of clones. I'm still just starting as now I have dedicated mothers. Thanks for the info a lot of great stuff! But I'm having difficulty with two things I tried to emulate off you..

1) I'm having little success with larger clones, they seem to tip over and die most of the time, some do survive though. I use a perlite and special soil germination mix. Though its important to mention, the 'large' clones I have taken so far were off very young mothers so the diameter of the stems were very thin, could this be it? Yours look much thicker and stronger, maybe I need to give my mothers some time. Also, how often do you foilar feed the clones?

2) Do you rotate your trays frequently? If not, some buds must be neglected thus fluffy. I've been having that prob, but my plants were bigger and taller last time as they were vegged for long (didn't have the cycle yet)

Thanks and again i cant believe how similar are setups are

 

[skunkman98536]

genious.....

 

[PlasmaRadio]

genious? What does that even mean?

 

[VictorVIcious]

I was waiting for you to say that. The funniest post I have ever seen is in this thread. VV

 

[PlasmaRadio]

Im sad to hear that I am getting predictable, but it had to be done.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

1) I'm having little success with larger clones, they seem to tip over and die most of the time, some do survive though. I use a perlite and special soil germination mix. Though its important to mention, the 'large' clones I have taken so far were off very young mothers so the diameter of the stems were very thin, could this be it? Yours look much thicker and stronger, maybe I need to give my mothers some time. Also, how often do you foilar feed the clones?

2) Do you rotate your trays frequently? If not, some buds must be neglected thus fluffy. I've been having that prob, but my plants were bigger and taller last time as they were vegged for long (didn't have the cycle yet)

Thanks and again i cant believe how similar are setups are

Thick stemmed cuttings outperform very thin ones. When I start a new mother plant, I'll veg it for a week then prune it and perhaps do that again in acpl weeks until the stems start coming up nice and thick. I prefer to use stems which are >8mm.

I've never foliar fed anything, but as long as one doesn't keep plants wet for many hours of each day, go for it.

I move plants from tray to tray every 2 weeks.

Since you're using soil, you may wish to build in some extra time into your sked- perhaps an extra 4-5 days in each tray, for a total flowering time of about 10 weeks, to combat any fluffy bud problems. Hydroponics makes nutrients more available to the plant and allows more oxygen to the roots than soil, making it just that much faster.

I do not envy anyone trying to run an op like mine in soil. Heavy, messy... and if you re-use soil, you can transfer root diseases from crop to crop. I spoze it's (sorta) easy to dispose of, but you must only use sterilised potting soil- yard soil will just not do. You can sterilise yard soil by baking it (about 2 hrs/kg @ ~200C), but open all the windows in the house before you do it! Phew!

Pruning off the branching on the lower 1/3 of the plant will also eliminate a lot of 'popcorn' buds. This is a necessary procedure in SoG anyway. Improves air circ around plants, allowing you to pack in as many pots as possible.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

I've been battling through a few problems in the op lately, prolly ought to make some notes about them now.

Early in this thread, I note that I was using PK-13-14 in wk3 at 2ml/litre. This is the upper recommended dosage given by Canna on the PK jug. At this rate, PK was causing acute potassium toxicity (leaves yellowing from margin to veins, poor plant development). I quit using PK entirely for a few batches to isolate the problem, which did stop the yellowing. Development is better without PK, but PK is very useful for improving bud density and overall yield. I've returned to using it again but only at 0.5ml/litre of tank volume.

I also had some small yellow spots appearing on lower leaves, which could either have been caused by a calcium deficiency or by my UV ioniser. I got some Canna calcium additive, which unfortunately has no dosage instructions on the label. I've been trialling it at 10ml in each 125L tank on mixing fresh tanks every 2 weeks. I've also started adding Epsom salts at 1 tsp per 125L tank on mixing. This has cured the spotting problem and plants are back to developing well in their first 2 wks in flowering, once again getting up to about 33-36" by wk3.

I ran the system without aeration in the tanks for a long time as the pumps quit and I was too slack to replace them. I didn't think that oxygenation by air stones was helping much considering I was using rockwool floc as a medium, instead depending on root oxygenation from the use of H2O2 (1ml/L every 3-4 days). I got some new air pumps and bubble curtains and have been running those for several weeks. This may or may not have anything to do with recent performance improvements, but it's one of those things that simply can't hurt anything.

I made several changes all at once, so it's difficult to tell which have really made the most improvement, but it looks like we're back on the trail to high productivity.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

I probably ought to make a note about my trial of Fytocell media. I had been putting a knee-hi stocking over the bottom of the pots to prevent the fine crumbs of Fytocell from escaping the pots. This is not desirable due to the cost of the stockings, but probably prevents gnats from getting at the roots as they emerge from the drain holes in the pots. Pots of Fytocell also have a tendency to float, even if well wetted.

In my latest batch, I tightly packed about 50mm of rockwool floc in the bottom of each pot and filled the remainder of the pots with Fytocell. The floc holds enough water to weight down the pots so they do not float. It also prevents the Fytocell crumbs from escaping into the res tanks. I did put stockings on this batch but have found that since the floc is preventing the Fytocell crumbs from escaping, they are probably not necessary.

 

[HydroHog]

This thread is truly an inspiration. Bravo

 

[Al B. Fuct]

In my latest batch, I tightly packed about 50mm of rockwool floc in the bottom of each pot and filled the remainder of the pots with Fytocell. The floc holds enough water to weight down the pots so they do not float. It also prevents the Fytocell crumbs from escaping into the res tanks. I did put stockings on this batch but have found that since the floc is preventing the Fytocell crumbs from escaping, they are probably not necessary.

Yep, this works great. No stockings from now on- just a couple of inches of rockwool floc in the bottom of each pot to weight them and block Fytocell crumbs from escaping.

I've changed the watering on trays 2, 3 & 4 to flood 2x day- at lights-on and an hour before lights-off. Fytocell doesn't hold as much water as floc, so this is both necessary and desirable to expose the roots to oxygenated water more often than I previously was doing. Plants in tray 1, covering the first 2 weeks of flowering, do OK with only 1 flood cycle per day, but I hand-water those for the first week with a spare pump and a hose, until I see roots poking out of the pots' drain holes.

 

[evhfan]

So how do you start this? Would I germinate seeds, make seedlings, grow 6-8 mothers, and then start cloning from there? How long do you have to let the mothers grow until you can take cuttings from them to make clones?

Very nice setup btw, I'm just a little confused on how long to grow the mothers first.

Also, it appears you have four 4' x 4' flood trays, but you said you only use two 1000W hps lights? Isn't that inadequate? A 1000w will only cover a 4' x 4' area? So, wouldn't you need four lights?

What do you do about nutes and ppm? Do you use any for the mothers? What about the trays/clones? What nutes do you use for all four trays, the mothers, and the clones? Also, what is your daily maintenance like? Do you add anything to the reservoirs daily, and how often do you empty out the reservoir and refill it? Could you explain to me what topping off with water is?

Also, when you put the cuttings from the mothers into the rockwool cubes, how often do you water them for the next 10-12 days? And how do you water them?

 

[VictorVIcious]

So how do you start this? Would I germinate seeds, make seedlings, grow 6-8 mothers, and then start cloning from there? How long do you have to let the mothers grow until you can take cuttings from them to make clones

?

I know you didn't ask me, Al has been busy in another forum, so I 'll jump in anyway. You would have to start somewhere, if you don't have clones available then Yes you would start with seeds, which will become seedlings. Since you won't know the sex of the plants YOu probably need to do some more things before you will be ready for mothers.

Very nice setup btw, I'm just a little confused on how long to grow the mothers first.

Also, it appears you have four 4' x 4' flood trays, but you said you only use two 1000W hps lights? Isn't that inadequate? A 1000w will only cover a 4' x 4' area? So, wouldn't you need four lights?

You will have to forgive Al on this one. He is used to the metric system and just made a mistake when he was doing the conversion to ft. I know he has corrected this. I think his tables are 2'7" sq. 1000 watt light's have a footprint larger than 4' x4', don't know where you got that, and Al has added some special reflectors to make them work better.

What do you do about nutes and ppm? Do you use any for the mothers? What about the trays/clones? What nutes do you use for all four trays, the mothers, and the clones? Also, what is your daily maintenance like? Do you add anything to the reservoirs daily, and how often do you empty out the reservoir and refill it? Could you explain to me what topping off with water is?

All of these questions are answered in the thread. Topping off, in thuis case, means filling the reservoir back to the level it started at. Empty clean and fill every two weeks, did you read the thread??

Also, when you put the cuttings from the mothers into the rockwool cubes, how often do you water them for the next 10-12 days? And how do you water them?

You may want to read his thread on cloning as well. Only water when they need it.
One of the things I like about Al B, is his willingness to change. If you read all of his threads you will see, he has made some changes recently and posted them when he has made them.
I took notes as I read his threads and tried to set mine up as close to his as I could. The mothers is a another subject. VV

 

[evhfan]

You may want to read his thread on cloning as well. Only water when they need it.
One of the things I like about Al B, is his willingness to change. If you read all of his threads you will see, he has made some changes recently and posted them when he has made them.
I took notes as I read his threads and tried to set mine up as close to his as I could. The mothers is a another subject. VV

Ah, thanks. Yeah, I've read the entire thread twice and taken notes as well. I have about 2 pages worth. I'm trying to replicate his setup... only thing now is what you said about his measurements being off.. I made my plans for 4' x 4' trays with a 1000w light hovering over each pair of trays. I'm now thinking maybe four 3' x 3' trays with a 400W HPS over each tray. Also a 400W MH over mothers in a 2' x 2' tray, and clones with fluoros.
What size trays/lights would you recommend for this setup? I would like to harvest 8oz every two weeks, more if possible.


edit:
I reread the thread again... apparently Al is using two 4x4 trays with a 1000w hps light. 16 sq ft * 12 in = 192 in.
Now if you take 192 in. and divide it by 8" pots..

192 / 8 = 24. And Al said he could fit 23-24 8" pots in his trays.

 

[kronos416]

How many plants total do you have going at one time in each phase of grow? clones, veg, flower ?

 

[Al B. Fuct]

So how do you start this? Would I germinate seeds, make seedlings, grow 6-8 mothers, and then start cloning from there?

Yep.

How long do you have to let the mothers grow until you can take cuttings from them to make clones?

Plants raised from seed must be grown to sexual maturity. This is when preflowers are showing at the node points while under veg cycle lighting.

Sex then must be determined, either by covering one branch for 12 hrs/day or taking a cutting, getting it to set root then putting it under 12/12.

Very nice setup btw, I'm just a little confused on how long to grow the mothers first.

It takes about 6-8 weeks from seed to sexual maturity.

Also, it appears you have four 4' x 4' flood trays, but you said you only use two 1000W hps lights? Isn't that inadequate? A 1000w will only cover a 4' x 4' area? So, wouldn't you need four lights?

When I wrote the lead post in this thread, I hadn't measured the trays. They are not 4'x4'- they are only 2' 8.4" square (820mm x 820mm). It's not a terribly significant difference, as long as one didn't try to run more than about 25 plants per tray.

The rule-o-thumb for HPS lighting is 50W/sq ft. A 1000 will cover 20sq ft very well. Would still work fine with a pair of 4x4 trays, as long as plants were regularly shifted into the best light as needed to even growth out. The light pattern from the Adjust-A-Wings batwing shades is a long rectangle which suits a pair of square trays beside one another very well.

What do you do about nutes and ppm?

All flowering tanks get Canna Flores, 1400ppm @ 5.5-5.8 (400ml ea A & B in 125L tank of 7.1 tapwater). Tank 2 gets 50ml of Canna PK-13-14 in wk3 for the plants in tray 2. All tanks get 1 tsp Epsom Salts when a fresh tank is mixed as well a 10ml of Canna liquid calcium. All tanks are dosed with H2O2, 50% grade @ 1ml/litre every 3-4 days to control pathogens.

Do you use any for the mothers?

Canna Vega, 1400ppm, 5.5-5.8, also H2O2, Epsom Salts and calcium.

What about the trays/clones?

pH adjusted tapwater with H2O2 @ 1ml/L.

Also, what is your daily maintenance like? Do you add anything to the reservoirs daily,

A check to see pumps have run is the only real daily thing. I don't monkey about with the tanks much. I mix a tank and allow the plants to use up the water and nutes. I may top up the tank if it drops much below 2/3 full, usually by the end of the first week of a 2 week life of a tank of nutes. When you top up with plain 7.1 tap water, the tanks may rise to about 6.2. Canna nutes have pH buffers in them which sets my 7.1 tapwater to 5.8 when I have mixed to 1400ppm, but after 1 week, the pH buffers and nutes are somewhat depleted. Some pH Down correction sauce is needed to drop the tanks back down to about 5.5-5.7.

how often do you empty out the reservoir and refill it?

Tanks are dumped and cleaned every 2 weeks.

Could you explain to me what topping off with water is?

Replacing tank water that the plants have consumed, with ye olde garden hose.

Also, when you put the cuttings from the mothers into the rockwool cubes, how often do you water them for the next 10-12 days? And how do you water them?

I water RW cubes 2x/day, every 12 hours, by dipping only one corner of the bottom of the cubes into a bucket of pH adjusted water. This avoids saturating the cubes. A properly damp cube should have about 20ml of water in it, no more. Excessively wet cubes root very slowly if at all.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

How many plants total do you have going at one time in each phase of grow? clones, veg, flower ?

Hmm.... at most, 10 mums, 30 cuttings setting root in the clonebox and 23-24 plants per tray in the 4 flowering trays, roughly 135 at most.

SoG grows plants to suit the lights and obtain only the best buds a plant can make. In SoG, one deliberately grows small plants so the majority of the harvest is buds from top colas. A 'carpet' or 'sea' of plants, organised with the main bud growing mass organised into something of a plane, suits artificial lighting better than the normal unpruned, tree-like growing habit of cannabis. SoG requires greater numbers of small plants to obtain the best yield per lighted floorspace.

There are other ways to get the SoG effect and reduce plant counts. One could shoot for rather large plants in big pots of media, but prune off the mainstems and veg the plants to make them bush out. This will give a number of verticals that will grow large tops. However, the buds which form on mainstems will always be bigger and denser than those formed on small branches. One could obtain similar results to a 24 pot SoG with only 6 very large pots with this method. However, it would require that the plants to be flowered were vegged for a week or two after the mainstems were lopped, to encourage branching formation. This would make the continuous harvest system I have a bit messy as cuttings would require a few weeks vegging under a high-powered lamp to get them up to size and grow some laterals. Vegging as such would require a separate veg area and lighting... more floorspace, power and time.

 

[welshspencer]

Hi Al

If i did the same setup but half the plants

3-4 mothers

15 cuttings

12 clones in each tray

Could i use two 600 hps one over two tanks


reagrds

 

[crazy-mental]

ive started to do this 5 plants every 3 weeks. as aposed to growing all at once, its a rite pain waiting for plants to finish, plus if awt goes wrong. you can learn from it, and hopfully not do it to your next grow, cos a grow can take upto 3/4 m,onths depending on strain and vegg time, it got to be better even just staggering your plants even if you only had space for 4 you could do one every 3 weeks, then also you can space out your weed, if your growing for yourself.
here mate any pics of all your grow spaces so i can see the diff. thanks.
do you keep the mums on 24/0. flo's or hps? for the mums.

 

[daveg1i]

very sick grow...damn

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Hi Al

If i did the same setup but half the plants

3-4 mothers

15 cuttings

12 clones in each tray

Could i use two 600 hps one over two tanks

Sounds about right. Trays would be limited to about 2.5' x 2.5' as a 600 will most effectively light about 12 sq ft. A pair of 2.5'^2 trays is about 12.5 sf.