Max Yield Equation

[RickWhite]

Conventional wisdom holds that the most efficient way to grow in a given area is to grow many small plants in a SOG. All other things being equal, this is pretty straight foreword.

But, many of us are under plant restrictions and I'm thinking this might change this equation.

My thinking is this:


Obviously, the largest harvests come from the largest canopies. And while larger plants can create shading to the lower portions, heavy topping can really spread the plant laterally and reduce the scrub growth.

The most growth occurs in the vegetation phase so while keeping plants in veg longer does use up a couple weeks, the benefit will out weigh this.
Flower time is fixed, say to 8 weeks. If clone + veg time is increased from say 5 weeks to 8 weeks, there is no down time. Otherwise one must wait 3 weeks to start the new clones and must deal with oddly timed, plant rotation. Why not flower up half while the other half use each and every day for growth.

Now, this will change your space dynamic in that it will require a lot more space. You will need a veg room just slightly smaller than your flower room and you will burn more electricity. But in the end, this should maximize production.


See, I'm thinking that the standard min veg time method is a formula for maximizing yield per square foot. We are interested in maximizing the yield per plant (sq feet be damned). Also, many of us are less concerned with power usage because we are legal. I think there is a huge difference between the two.

Think about doubling your canopy size with the same number of plants and it only costs you a little more lighting cost and the space you can't use anyway.

 

[madcatter]

I am a Canadian Med MJ holder and have that plant limitation.... My first grow I let veg longer but about 40% of my original clones were 2 weeks behind.... and they have never gotten the size that the larger ones have.... My next grow I am going to veg longer and then set up a second grow tent and split them up and see if we can grow trees....

I don;t think the SOG equation works for fixedplant numbers like you pointed out...

 

[skoobie dew]

If you're trying to work within the California guidelines then you can have either 6 adult OR 12 immature plants.

 

[mrduke]

If you're trying to work within the California guidelines then you can have either 6 adult OR 12 immature plants.

NO!!! thats not true it varyies from county to county in my area your able to grow up to 30 mature plants or how ever many you can fit in a 10x10 area NOR CAL fuck yeah

 

[mkay420]

stuff 100 in that 10x10 and you got yourself a setup haha.... i like trees myself....

 

[jjp53]

NO!!! thats not true it varyies from county to county in my area your able to grow up to 30 mature plants or how ever many you can fit in a 10x10 area NOR CAL fuck yeah

You must live in Alameda or Santa Cruz county.

 

[RickWhite]

In MI you are limited to 12 plants per card and 5 cards per care giver. Plus, if you have a card your self it comes to 72 plants. We have no other restrictions but must grow under lock and key - no outdoor grows. Also, electricity is about $0.09 per KWH so it is relativly cheap.

But anyway, I am interested in hearing opinions about this formula for max yield. Again, I do believe that if one can grow as many plants as they wish, small plants wall to wall gives the best yield. But if you are limited to 72 you will want to make 36 as big as you can with the other 36 on deck.

What do you think?

 

[d.c. beard]

This is easy...

The best way to increase yield / maximize space is:

1) Start with the proper strain. Use one that is known to produce high yields.
2) Improve your growing skills and available resources (lights, nutes, etc) to achieve a very high gram-per-watt outcome.

Everybody always wants to know how to yield more, but usually aren't even close to maximizing their current resources to their fullest potential. Once you can pull 1 gram per watt or higher out of your current setup then worry about what to do to raise yield. If you can't pull 1 gram per watt, then it's your setup that needs the help or you kinda suck at growing and need to learn more. The genetics you start with, your grow environment, and your personal growing skills are about the only variables you have in your control. Work on improving these, and your yields will improve as well.

 

[RickWhite]

This is easy...

The best way to increase yield / maximize space is:

1) Start with the proper strain. Use one that is known to produce high yields.
2) Improve your growing skills and available resources (lights, nutes, etc) to achieve a very high gram-per-watt outcome.

Everybody always wants to know how to yield more, but usually aren't even close to maximizing their current resources to their fullest potential. Once you can pull 1 gram per watt or higher out of your current setup then worry about what to do to raise yield. If you can't pull 1 gram per watt, then it's your setup that needs the help or you kinda suck at growing and need to learn more. The genetics you start with, your grow environment, and your personal growing skills are about the only variables you have in your control. Work on improving these, and your yields will improve as well.

Assuming one is doing everything you say there is still the matter of my original question.

Plus, 1g/Watt is kind of a misnomer if you don't take into account time. If I got 1000g using a 1000W bulb but it took me a year I wouldn't be doing a good job.

Yield ties into bulb wattage because a given bulb can illuminate a given space and that given space should yield a given weight.

I'm thinking that given a set number of plants, one should grow these plants to fill as much square footage as possible since it will be the square footage of canopy that determines yield.

 

[skoobie dew]

Sorry I meant to say California State Guidelines. In some places you can have more than the 6 or 12 rule http://www.canorml.org/prop/local215policies.html


Expect to get one lb per 1000watt light per eight weeks in flower on a good grow(this doesn't count energy used in veg). You can get 2+ lb per light if you are lucky or have a lot of experience, but it's unlikely. IMHO you need about 1/4 the number of lights vegging as you do flowering. I don't personally know anyone who gets 3lbs per 1000 watt light, even using no glass on a vertical grow. It might be possible, but I don't believe it is practical, at least not on an eight week strain non perpetual garden.

What you can do is grow really big plants in soil! Your only limitation will be height. Just grow your plants to 1/2 to 1/3 final size (depending on strain and conditions) and use lateral lighting from vertical lights between plants. It's really going old school.

 

[RickWhite]

OK, it seems like I'm not doing a great job of getting my point across.

I don't care how many g/W I'm getting and I don't care how many lights I run. This thread isn't about that.

The only question that we are concerned with here is how to get max yield from a given number of plants. My answer to this question is to grow the plants as wide as possible and use as much space as possible.

My reasoning is that bigger plants give larger yields and that the most productive phase is vegetation. See, if one is illegally growing, that person wants to keep electrical use low and maximize yield by Watt and/or by growing area. To do that you grow many small plants.

If one is doing a legal grow and needs to stay with say 24 plants, the game changes. What I am considering is a 2'X2' area per plant - so 12 plants would take up a 4'X12' area. The plants would be topped so they don't get too tall and they would be illuminated by 2 X 600W HPS on light rails. I love the light rails because if you turn the reflector perpendicular to the rail you get massive canopy penetration from the infinitely changing angle of the light.

Anyway, this method will give a 48 sq ft canopy as opposed to say a 12 sq ft canopy for small plants. That is 4 times the yield from the same number of plants. In exchange, this will cost about 3 X the electrical (given the larger veg light). And we will not lengthen our growing time either, because when on plant restrictions one must wait to take clones.

So, in the end, you get 4 times the yield, burn 3 times as much electricity, and you get rid of 3 weeks of down time. The only thing you need is a very large growing area and the ability to burn through a decent amount of electricity.

 

[bubbleobill]

Good questions, I am here in Oz and this is an issue. Cloning or starting new seeds is always a nervous time for me because it's the only time I am really taking any risk, ideally I just want five or six good plants on rotation.
At the moment I have a nice three footer which is my best yet in terms of quality (a massive issue for me) and yield....it has had plenty of space and light (400w hps). It is a dwc grow which has been heavily trained and trimmed before flowering, I think a lot of my inspiration came from bonsai mj plant journals, and fucking up myself in the past.
I think one possible addition to your quest could be ensuring it's 100% A+ grade pot - I have so many mates who just churn it out and care more for weight than quality. Oils aint necessarily oils

 

[RickWhite]

Good questions, I am here in Oz and this is an issue. Cloning or starting new seeds is always a nervous time for me because it's the only time I am really taking any risk, ideally I just want five or six good plants on rotation.
At the moment I have a nice three footer which is my best yet in terms of quality (a massive issue for me) and yield....it has had plenty of space and light (400w hps). It is a dwc grow which has been heavily trained and trimmed before flowering, I think a lot of my inspiration came from bonsai mj plant journals, and fucking up myself in the past.
I think one possible addition to your quest could be ensuring it's 100% A+ grade pot - I have so many mates who just churn it out and care more for weight than quality. Oils aint necessarily oils

Man that is a nice looking plant. I'm guessing you got a good 6 oz or more from her?

That is what I am talking about. To hell with the power company and crowding plants into a small area. I say buy more lights, and spread those girls out.

 

[Cannabud]

For your consideration: I think scrogging is probably the best way to spread out your canopy, you could attach 2x2 screens to each individual pot and veg closely with floro's until your screen was 1/2 to 2/3 full. then flip to 12 12 on an hps and flower out. This would help your electricity problems somewhat. also, if given a large enough space and a pre determined amount of plants, one could divide the area in half and use half for vegging and half for flowering. stagger the plants at 2 week intervals and try to crop out 2 weeks worth of smoke at a time. I think the perpetual grow is best for non commercial growers. Your supply is constant and fresh, and your never faced with the daunting task of being in possession of one large amount of controlled substance.

Im curious, if there is any vetern scroggers out there, how much do you think one plant could squeeze out of a 2x2 screen?

 

[RickWhite]

I'm not entirely down with screens. Hundreds of thousands of years of evolution have formed these plants to best use light.

Think of each cola being a 360 deg, verticle light catcher. The light catching ability seems like it would be less when they are all tied down.

Besides, I'm thinking of just blasting out a whole basement. One side for 8 weeks veg and one for 8 weeks flower. Unless I go Sativa then longer.

 

[blazinbudsforever]

rick you sound like a hippie vegetarian type of dude. these previous posters stated some good ideas and you shot them all down good luck chuck.

 

[bubbleobill]

Lol. Could you explain what is wrong with being vegetarian to me? You might like to check the cafe section, there are quite a few formidable vegetarian growers.
I understand where he is coming from, it's all about maximising yield per plant with little or no regard for resources because good pot is liquid gold. It's actually quite the opposite of many of the hippy mentalities on this forum, trying to save a buck wherever it's possible.

 

[RickWhite]

rick you sound like a hippie vegetarian type of dude. these previous posters stated some good ideas and you shot them all down good luck chuck.

FYI, they call that scientific method.

 

[RickWhite]

I understand where he is coming from, it's all about maximising yield per plant with little or no regard for resources because good pot is liquid gold.

You are spot on.

 

[Magnetar]

I don't know which way is the best, but I know my way works best for me.
Genetics is the key, without that you won't yield very much compared to me.
We searched for decades to find the super females and we found them.
We clone the best of the best and keep only the fastest growing and most potent and tastiest clones.
Your strain must finish at 8 weeks of flower so the next crop can rotate through the flower room on time.
Hydroponics grows 3 times as fast as soil and CO2 adds another 30% more to that.
The strain you grow has to be able to take massive doses of nutrients without burning.
Your lighting has to be the right kind and very intense.
Your clones must be able to take the heat without burning.
90% of the plants out there would fry if I tried to do what I do to these plants.