Safest food grade diy ph down

[Enigma]

Baking soda can be used but the excess sodium causes problems for potassium because of the higher valence.

Potassium silicate or hydroxide would be a better choice.

I chose H2SO4 because it is a strong acid, it can be had inexpensively and it is the most commonly used in horticulture for good reason.

 

[dstroy]

You don't use H2SO4, good for you.

If you say it can't be done then don't interrupt the man doing it.

No reason to troll just because you don't agree.

Now I think you are being dense on purpose. I never said that it could not be done. I said that H2SO4 is more dangerous than alternatives, because it is. There really isn't any amount of arguing from you that is going to make concentrated sulfuric acid safer.

 

[Johnei]

Apple Cider Vinegar in organic growing.
Regular white Vinegar for hydro.

Baking soda for pH up or potassium silicate mixture.

Baking soda can be used but the excess sodium causes problems for potassium because of the higher valence.

Potassium silicate or hydroxide would be a better choice.

I chose H2SO4 because it is a strong acid, it can be had inexpensively and it is the most commonly used in horticulture for good reason.

Good to know some of the specifics. Thanks. yeah, baking soda for emergency situations I guess then and never too much.

 

[Enigma]

I've never had a single incident with H2SO4.

You say it is dangerous, yet I've never experienced this danger.

It is the most commonly used in horticulture as well.

 

[churchhaze]

Urea is an organic solid included in many hydroponic nutrients.

Urea shouldn't be in hydroponic nutrients because it doesn't work very well as a source of N. It's preferable to source the majority of nitrogen through nitrate forms of N and a small amount through ammonium.

 

[dstroy]

Urea shouldn't be in hydroponic nutrients because it doesn't work very well as a source of N. It's preferable to source the majority of nitrogen through nitrate forms of N and a small amount through ammonium.

Well I guess you should get right on telling nutrient manufacturers to stop using urea then.

 

[Enigma]

You can use anything you want.

It isn't my problem.

Oh, in a capitalist economy they will sell you anything if you'll buy it.

"You can put a turd in a box, slap a label on it, put a guarantee on the side and it will sell."

Does anyone remember the Pet Rock?

 

[applepoop1984]

Urea shouldn't be in hydroponic nutrients because it doesn't work very well as a source of N. It's preferable to source the majority of nitrogen through nitrate forms of N and a small amount through ammonium.

but you're A ok with new growers handling sulphur acid...

 

[churchhaze]

but you're A ok with new growers handling sulphur acid...

Sulfuric acid and phorphoric acid both make good pH downs assuming you don't already have too much sulfur or P. Neither are as good as nitric, but nitric is expensive.

None of this has to do with whether you should use urea to source N in hydroponics.

 

[churchhaze]

Well I guess you should get right on telling nutrient manufacturers to stop using urea then.

Name 1 hydroponic mix that uses an appreciable amount of urea to supply N.

 

[dstroy]

Name 1 hydroponic mix that uses urea.

https://customhydronutrients.com/urea-c-1_44_390.html

Sensi bloom has "ammoniacal nitrogen" which is urea + ammonium nitrate.

This took 5 minutes of googling.

 

[dstroy]

Name 1 hydroponic mix that uses an appreciable amount of urea to supply N.

https://www.planetnatural.com/wp-content/uploads/sensi-bloom-label.pdf

There's the msds, says "urea" right on the label.

 

[churchhaze]

https://customhydronutrients.com/urea-c-1_44_390.html

Sensi bloom has "ammoniacal nitrogen" which is urea + ammonium nitrate.

This took 5 minutes of googling.

Your first link was just pure urea... I don't see how that's a hydroponic formula. With sensi bloom, only a very small part is sourced through urea. The majority of N is supplied through nitrates. you're making a big mistake if you choose a formula that sources any appreciable amount of N as urea. That's hardly an example of a formula that uses urea for N. (see jack's classic or miracle grow)

 

[dstroy]

Your first link was just pure urea... I don't see how that's a hydroponic formula. With sensi bloom, only a very small part is sourced through urea. The majority of N is supplied through nitrates. you're making a big mistake if you choose a formula that sources any appreciable amount of N as urea.

If you had bothered reading the first link, it's "for hydroponics" pure urea, intended for mixing as a hydroponic nutrient. It was only there to show that urea intended for hydroponics exist.

Second, you edited your post from "name one hydroponic nutrient that uses urea" to "name 1 hydroponic mix that uses an appreciable amount of urea to supply N". Well I think I satisfied both of those.

Third, I'm not arguing that you should use urea in hydroponics. My position always was that it existed in manufacturer formulas.

Like I already said, took 5 minutes of googling msds

 

[Enigma]

Sulfuric acid and phorphoric acid both make good pH downs assuming you don't already have too much sulfur or P. Neither are as good as nitric, but nitric is expensive.

None of this has to do with whether you should use urea to source N in hydroponics.

Sulfuric acid is a strong acid, you won't adversly effect the nutrient levels by using it because of how little is required. The plants also need sulfur in those small amounts.

Phosphoric acid is expensive and will cause problems with nutrition.

Anything with sodium will cause problems for potassium. It will work in low doses of it is all you have, but not recommended.

The problem with nitric acid is that it is used to make bombs and is strictly controlled. The other issue is nitric acid fumes big time, I wouldn't handle it without gear. That is saying something, I've used sulfuric without gear and I will again.

It is just that easy.

 

[dstroy]

Sulfuric acid is a strong acid, you won't adversly effect the nutrient levels by using it because of how little is required. The plants also need sulfur in those small amounts.

Phosphoric acid is expensive and will cause problems with nutrition.

Anything with sodium will cause problems for potassium. It will work in low doses of it is all you have, but not recommended.

The problem with nitric acid is that it is used to make bombs and is strictly controlled. The other issue is nitric acid fumes big time, I wouldn't handle it without gear. That is saying something, I've used sulfuric without gear and I will again.

It is just that easy.

Sulfur is included in many hydroponic nutrient formulations already.

food grade phosphoric acid is $20 on ebay

nitric acid is $20 on ebay, "strictly controlled" lol. I hope you aren't confusing regular nitric acid for fuming red nitric acid which is rocket fuel, and strictly controlled.

Phosphoric acid does not cause problems with plant nutrition. It is used in many commercial "ph down" products. Please provide the source of information that says it does "cause problems with nutrition".

concentrated nitric acid fumes, but not when it is dilute. I hope you aren't confusing regular nitric acid for fuming red nitric acid which is rocket fuel, and strictly controlled.

Just like concentrated sulfuric acid fumes, but not when it is dilute

You are providing what is known as "anecdotal" evidence, and not "empirical" evidence.

 

[Enigma]

You obviously did not read this thread.

All of your questions have already been answered.

 

[dstroy]

You obviously did not read this thread.

All of your questions have already been answered.

This is an excerpt from an article written by The Center for Agriculture, Food and the Environment:

"In our experience, the most effective and widely used acid is sulfuric acid; however, this is one of the most hazardous acids to use. For low amounts of alkalinity removal, phosphoric acid may be the acid of choice. However, we do not advocate adding more than 2.25 fluid ounces of this acid to 100 gallons of water, because of the amount of P one would add. Nitric acid is theoretically ideal because it adds nitrate nitrogen; but it fumes and is highly oxidizing, making it very difficult to handle. Citric acid is a weak organic acid and a solid, making it safer than the other three; but it is much less effective, and therefore more expensive to use."

Simply copied and pasted with no adulteration.

I do not appreciate anyone spreading misinformation on this site as I take a personal stock in the information provided here. I've noticed, over many years and several boards, there are people that logon to make a name for them self, show-off, to stroke their ego with delusions of grandeur. Some pull their information from magazines, others rely on their buddy's expertise or what ever sales pitch the local hydroponics store sales clerk swears by.

DO NOT BE FOOLED BY GIMMICKS!

Simply, the cheapest and easiest way to pH down is sulfuric acid, it was $8 last I bought some and I never used it all.

You've flipped back and forth like twenty times in this thread, and refuse to admit that sulfuric acid is dangerous. The first source you linked LITERALLY says "this is one of the most hazardous acids to use" referring to sulfuric acid. AND RIGHT AFTER "for low amounts of alkalinity removal, phosphoric acid may be the acid of choice", you know like tap water that isn't super hard.

What?

 

[applepoop1984]

Sulfuric acid and phorphoric acid both make good pH downs assuming you don't already have too much sulfur or P. Neither are as good as nitric, but nitric is expensive.

None of this has to do with whether you should use urea to source N in hydroponics.

And none of what you said has anything to do with phosphoric acid and at best is thread jacking less you have something meaningful to contribute please move along

 

[applepoop1984]

I could find any multitude of hydroponic solutions that contain urea that's not the point you just want to be right you and the enigma think new grower should handle sulfuric acid which is stupid at best