Nitrogen Toxicity? Flowering SLOW

Ghostfox

Well-Known Member
Hello all, thank you for taking the time out of your day (or night) to read and help me out. HERE is a link to my grow over in the DWC forums in case anyone wanted to get all the information about it before they made a suggestion.

Basically I got some very sickly clones that had bugs, light burn, and a myriad of other problems. After nursing back to health and transplanting to bubble buckets they absolutely exploded in veg, gotta love Superthrive. I defoliated pretty heavily during veg and then left them be for the first week or so of flower.

The Papaya plant took 3 days to start producing pistils, with the Pineapple Express and Green Crack showing at 5-8 days. From there they buffed up their size during stretch to about the size of a marble and then just stopped entirely until about day 30 at which point they got a tiny bit bigger, stopped until day 40, got a tiny bit bigger, and here were are now at day 46.

I didn't realize defoliation was bad during stretch, which stunted vertical growth of plants but I don't really mind that as I wanted smaller bushier plants to work with. But my problem now seems to be a nutrient issue. I'll post a few excerpts from my grow thread below.

Day 43:
" The new tent sent temperatures skyrocketing to 85-95 with the two open reflector 400w lights depending on the time of the day, whether I left tent door open, etc. so I purchased a 1000w fixture on eBay and routed the entire output of my apartment's swamp cooler to the grow room. The swamp cooler kept it at 85°F until the 1000w set up got here, at which point I switched them out. With the 1000w in the room, temperatures were staying at 87°F and while that's much better than 95°F, I was forced to leave the swamp cooler venting to the tent. Temperatures now stay steady at 77.5°F throughout the day, and around 65°F at night. "

Temperatures were ~85 with very brief spikes of 90+ for days 37-43

" Flowering is still going slow, although I did learn upon receiving TDS/PH meters that I was running at 550ppm the whole grow instead of the ~1300 I should have been sitting at. Somehow I managed to fuck up the Lucas Formula despite weighing my Maxibloom out on a digital scale that goes down to 1mg. I've added Bloombastic at 3ml/gallon, bumped nutrients up to ~1300 and while the plants show no signs of nutrient burn or any deficiency, they still continue to flower incredibly slow. pH is checked 2x a day and is always between 5.75 and 5.85. "

Day 46: Oct 26 2015
" It's day 46 since the flip and the leaves are starting to claw more with the very tips of leaves burnt yellow. DM Zone arrived today, but no MOAB. I calculated the max dosage according to bottle of DM Zone and added 8.4ml per bucket as I run 3.5 gallons to keep the water right below the net pot. Also added was a half strength dose of Maxibloom, bringing PPMs up to 800 for Green Crack, and 550 for Pineapple Express and Papaya. "

I've attached pictures of each plant showing the leaf symptoms and buds. They look okay in pictures, but they're about the size of my thumb at max.

ANY help is appreciated, and thanks in advance!

Green Crack:
greencrack1.jpg

Papaya:
papaya2.jpg

Pineapple Express:
pineapple1.jpg
 

wiethe20

Well-Known Member
Even at 85+ is to hot for Marijuana in any standards.. (I lazy and I'm not clicking your link to read 40+ days of posts to see if your running con or not)but the calyx doesn't swell up until all those white hairs die off and turn red/brown ...and recede back into the calyx. .you have several weeks left
 

daloudpack

Well-Known Member
i disagree ,,,, ur way behind i recommend putting some wd 40 on a qtip and massaging ur buds with it...
 

Ghostfox

Well-Known Member
Even at 85+ is to hot for Marijuana in any standards.. (I lazy and I'm not clicking your link to read 40+ days of posts to see if your running con or not)but the calyx doesn't swell up until all those white hairs die off and turn red/brown ...and recede back into the calyx. .you have several weeks left
That's what I was thinking as far as flower time, but the drooping burnt leaves are my primary concern at the moment. I'm impatient with how long the flower period is turning out to be, but I'm certainly patient enough to not pull it until it's 100% ready.

As far as my journal, I actually started it on day 30 something of flower and it only has four posts all of which are mine. Granted, they are quite long explaining what I'm doing and what's happening with the grow.

i disagree ,,,, ur way behind i recommend putting some wd 40 on a qtip and massaging ur buds with it...
This has to be a troll, but it sure did make me laugh. My curiosity is forcing me to google it though...
 

Ghostfox

Well-Known Member
have u been checking ur trichs u got to be getting close
I don't have a loop, but triches have just started getting heavy on Papaya, and they're still pretty light on GC&PE. In fact GC&PE barely had any up until the last week - week and a half or so. Should probably grab a loop or something. I want to get a USB microscope off Amazon, but have better things to spend that on. Maybe I could use my glasses lenses in conjunction with a camera to zoom in a bit seeing as I'm blind as a fucking bat.

EDIT: There are still TONS of white pistils on the GC and more white than orange on the PE with the Papaya sitting at about 50/50. GC is almost entirely white pistils and the ones that are orange have 1 orange hair out of a grouping of 6.

1300ppm is a lot. I use lucas in flower and I stay around 600 or so.
0.7EC conversion. If I recall correctly I read that Lucas stated that you should be at about 900 with a 0.5EC conversion and 1250 with a 0.7EC conversion. I have a tendency to just round up. For example if my PPM is 1278 I'll just post 1300 because I can't be fucked to remember those numbers.
 

tropicalcannabispatient

Well-Known Member
Hello all, thank you for taking the time out of your day (or night) to read and help me out. HERE is a link to my grow over in the DWC forums in case anyone wanted to get all the information about it before they made a suggestion.

Basically I got some very sickly clones that had bugs, light burn, and a myriad of other problems. After nursing back to health and transplanting to bubble buckets they absolutely exploded in veg, gotta love Superthrive. I defoliated pretty heavily during veg and then left them be for the first week or so of flower.

The Papaya plant took 3 days to start producing pistils, with the Pineapple Express and Green Crack showing at 5-8 days. From there they buffed up their size during stretch to about the size of a marble and then just stopped entirely until about day 30 at which point they got a tiny bit bigger, stopped until day 40, got a tiny bit bigger, and here were are now at day 46.

I didn't realize defoliation was bad during stretch, which stunted vertical growth of plants but I don't really mind that as I wanted smaller bushier plants to work with. But my problem now seems to be a nutrient issue. I'll post a few excerpts from my grow thread below.

Day 43:
" The new tent sent temperatures skyrocketing to 85-95 with the two open reflector 400w lights depending on the time of the day, whether I left tent door open, etc. so I purchased a 1000w fixture on eBay and routed the entire output of my apartment's swamp cooler to the grow room. The swamp cooler kept it at 85°F until the 1000w set up got here, at which point I switched them out. With the 1000w in the room, temperatures were staying at 87°F and while that's much better than 95°F, I was forced to leave the swamp cooler venting to the tent. Temperatures now stay steady at 77.5°F throughout the day, and around 65°F at night. "

Temperatures were ~85 with very brief spikes of 90+ for days 37-43

" Flowering is still going slow, although I did learn upon receiving TDS/PH meters that I was running at 550ppm the whole grow instead of the ~1300 I should have been sitting at. Somehow I managed to fuck up the Lucas Formula despite weighing my Maxibloom out on a digital scale that goes down to 1mg. I've added Bloombastic at 3ml/gallon, bumped nutrients up to ~1300 and while the plants show no signs of nutrient burn or any deficiency, they still continue to flower incredibly slow. pH is checked 2x a day and is always between 5.75 and 5.85. "

Day 46: Oct 26 2015
" It's day 46 since the flip and the leaves are starting to claw more with the very tips of leaves burnt yellow. DM Zone arrived today, but no MOAB. I calculated the max dosage according to bottle of DM Zone and added 8.4ml per bucket as I run 3.5 gallons to keep the water right below the net pot. Also added was a half strength dose of Maxibloom, bringing PPMs up to 800 for Green Crack, and 550 for Pineapple Express and Papaya. "

I've attached pictures of each plant showing the leaf symptoms and buds. They look okay in pictures, but they're about the size of my thumb at max.

ANY help is appreciated, and thanks in advance!

Green Crack:
View attachment 3529605

Papaya:
View attachment 3529606

Pineapple Express:
View attachment 3529607
 

Attachments

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
Overall im going to say those plants got off on the wrong start. First mites and aphids, then defoliation followed by nute burn because the foliage couldnt take it followed by 90f for a few days then defoliated a few times during flower too early. Yeah, that will cause extremly slow growth, also if your calyx's start looking swollen too soon then id check for some pollen sacks because they might have just pollinated themselves. The main thing that probably fucked everything was the defoliation. Something I've been trying to learn all year with CRAP results.
 

Ghostfox

Well-Known Member
if your calyx's start looking swollen too soon then id check for some pollen sacks because they might have just pollinated themselves.
I got one self pollinated seed a day or two ago on the PE but I pulled it out and probably the sac as no more have pollinated. I didn't really get an actual seed, I got a green thin membrane of a shell with a microscopic taproot/cotyledon inside of it. There's pictures that I've marked up in my grow thread, which I just added to my signature now that I'm allowed to have one.

They've been making good progress ever since the 1000w came in as far as thickening up slightly every day although it's still pretty slow.
 

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
I got one self pollinated seed a day or two ago on the PE but I pulled it out and probably the sac as no more have pollinated. I didn't really get an actual seed, I got a green thin membrane of a shell with a microscopic taproot/cotyledon inside of it. There's pictures that I've marked up in my grow thread, which I just added to my signature now that I'm allowed to have one.

They've been making good progress ever since the 1000w came in as far as thickening up slightly every day although it's still pretty slow.
They are just sickly bro, been through too much already, what week of flower did you find that pollen sack? Did you find any open ones? Or was there no pollen sack at all?. Nothing you can really do now except for keep everything perfect. They might speed up a bit but you've most likely lost weight from stress in early/mid flower. Do not defoliate anymore! I've tried the whole day 22/day 45 defol, just not worth it unless your experimenting on clones or bag seed.
 
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Ghostfox

Well-Known Member
They are just sickly bro, been through too much already, what week of flower did you find that pollen sack?
I got one self pollinated seed a day or two ago on the PE but I pulled it out and probably the sac as no more have pollinated or swollen up at all. I didn't really get an actual seed, I got a green thin membrane of a shell with a microscopic taproot/cotyledon inside of it.
They might speed up a bit but you've most likely lost weight from stress in early/mid flower.
I figured as much as far as yield, the potency looks like it will be there but I'm hoping to get them happy and keep them happy until they're as fat as they'll get. I ordered a ton of seeds recently, although I'm still waiting on them. Grabbed some auto flowers to use as a buffer crop otherwise all regulars and feminized from decent genetics.
 

tropicalcannabispatient

Well-Known Member
@tropicalcannabispatient While very useful these charts generally confuse me as I can never find anything identical to what my plants look like and end up having to guess between a bunch of things. Here are some closer shots of the leaves.

GC:
View attachment 3529635
PE:
View attachment 3529637 View attachment 3529638 View attachment 3529639 View attachment 3529640

Papaya:
View attachment 3529636
It can be calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, or potassium. Check those again in the pic and decide. Buy epson salt at walmart and molasses 1 scoop of each, u can use it in your water and feeding schedule. Dont use the epson salts for prolonged time. Post results in 2 weeks. Good luck!!!
 

Ghostfox

Well-Known Member
It can be calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, or potassium. Check those again in the pic and decide. Buy epson salt at walmart and molasses 1 scoop of each, u can use it in your water and feeding schedule. Dont use the epson salts for prolonged time. Post results in 2 weeks. Good luck!!!
I was leaning heavily towards a calcium deficiency as it seems a lot of people using Lucas Formula have that problem. I'm fairly certain I'm good on potassium as I've been providing them 3ml/gallon Bloombastic and was supposed to start them on MOAB today but some asshole stole my package out of the box today and I'm pissed about that.

EDIT: After a lot of thinking and reviewing the plants lives I really can't figure out which of the things you listed it is. I'm leaning heavily towards either P or K because symptoms of both include Cal/Mag deficiencies. Lower leaves have been doing the wilting/light color/browning thing pretty much since flower, I've just been pulling them off and assuming it's because they weren't getting enough light.
 
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tropicalcannabispatient

Well-Known Member
I was leaning heavily towards a calcium deficiency as it seems a lot of people using Lucas Formula have that problem. I'm fairly certain I'm good on potassium as I've been providing them 3ml/gallon Bloombastic and was supposed to start them on MOAB today but some asshole stole my package out of the box today and I'm pissed about that.

EDIT: After a lot of thinking and reviewing the plants lives I really can't figure out which of the things you listed it is. I'm leaning heavily towards either P or K because symptoms of both include Cal/Mag deficiencies. Lower leaves have been doing the wilting/light color/browning thing pretty much since flower, I've just been pulling them off and assuming it's because they weren't getting enough light.
Get yourself some calmag. Google it. Good luck
 

Ghostfox

Well-Known Member
Get yourself some calmag. Google it. Good luck
I knew I should have ordered some when I thought about it a few weeks ago. Damn. However, during veg when I would set pH at 5.8 and let it drift up to 6.2-6.4 before adjusting the plants were very healthy and had no signs of any deficiencies but ever since I've switched to flowers and started checking pH every day and keeping them at 5.7-5.8 they've begun having problems.

I remember reading a couple of threads a while back regarding Lucas Formula and CalMag deficiencies, the general consensus was get CalMag or let your pH run at 6.2 for a few days every so often. I correlated that information with the chart below and realized that I was completely locking out calcium with the pH levels I've been running so I adjusted pH in all buckets to 6.15-6.2 and we'll see if that helps out.

hydroponics-ph-chart-marijuana.jpg

I'm not sure why Lucas recommends a pH of 5.8 and insists you will not need CalMag with his formula, a little absurd if you ask me. I also see no reason to run at 5.8 when I can absorb all of the nutrients I need at 6.0-6.2 with the exception of Maganese.
 
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