Stoned Tree
Member
Hi, I've used ZHO before and in my experience it's been very easy to dissolve. Maybe your water is too cold? Or you could try mixing it up in some water before you add it in?
DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes
- Thread starter Heisenberg
- Start date
Stoned Tree
Member
I have a question on a certain product called Bio Balancer by CX Hydroponics.
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"Bio Balancer is the Perfect Food for Beneficial Bacteria in Hydroponic Gardens"
"Bio Balancer is a synthetic compound that was developed to mimic the composition of the exudates of plants. As such, it is the ultimate food forbeneficial bacteria. In using Bio Balancer, it is important to closely follow the dosage instructions because too much Bio Balancer can lead to an oversupply of bacteria that may over load the hydroponic reservoir and root zone. Clogged pipes are common in these cases."
http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2012/04/14/healthy-roots-with-bio-balancer-by-cx-hydroponics/
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From their website, "It took a long time but the answer has recently been found. It eventually became evident that all the organisms had an effect on each other. It seems that the available food supply is the key to the success or otherwise of each of the micro-organisms. When the carbohydrates and other substances exuded by the plant roots favoured the ‘bad’ bugs then these bugs multiplied. When it favoured the ‘good’ bugs they were the ones that thrived."
http://www.cxhydroponics.net/products/bio-balancer
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"What Can Go Wrong?"
"While many root exudate compounds create beneficial conditions in the rhizosphere by encouraging certain microbes or changing the physical or chemical conditions surrounding the roots, occasionally this process can go wrong. Plant stressors, such as unfavorable growing conditions, high EC, low moisture levels, nutrient deficiency, lack of oxygen in the root zone and overcrowding, place pressure on the root system and promote the release of an increased amount of different types of root exudates. The carbon compounds in these secretions can act as a food source for pathogens, tipping the balance in the rhizosphere from beneficial microbe populations to disease-causing fungi and bacteria. Some plants, such as cucumbers, which produce large amounts of mucilage (polysaccharides and proteins) secreted from the rapidly growing outer layers of the root cap cells, may be particularly prone to this type of problem in systems that promote the buildup of organic compounds. Studies found that root mucilage supports rapid growth of pythium root rot and serves as a food base from which the pathogen invaded the roots of cucumber plants. This was prevented when there were a sufficient number of other microbes present to break down the mucilage and prevent it from accumulating around the roots."
"Researchers have determined that certain root exudates have the potential to be used in crop production as a defence against soil-borne disease pathogens, and that they also have the potential to boost growth and development by promoting relationships with beneficial microbes in the rhizosphere. In the future we may see a much different approach to root exudates: harnessing them for disease suppression as a way of boosting growth specific to hydroponic systems."
http://www.maximumyield.com/index.php/features/articles/item/1639-revealing-root-exudates
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What I've gathered from reading all this is that there are many different types of root exudates..some of them good things feed from and some of them bad things feed from. Unless this information is bullshit is it not possible to use this tea and this product together and instead of brewing all the time just adding it once and then using this product in the res so that only the good microbes are favored and they outgrow the bad ones?
From what I know the only reason we add food (molasses) to the brew bucket and not the res is because both bad microbes and good microbes can feed on it. This makes sense because we only want the good microbes to grow. However, if this product is a type of exudate or food or whatever that only good microbes can feed off of and not bad ones can I not use this in my
res? Someone experienced chime in maybe? Man I hope this works. Also, these guys have two other interesting products, Wilt Guard, and Regen-A-Root. Any input on these?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***"CX Hydroponics Bio Balancer has a supply of the food favoured by these ‘good’ bugs."***
http://www.cxhydroponics.net/products/bio-balancer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Bio Balancer is the Perfect Food for Beneficial Bacteria in Hydroponic Gardens"
"Bio Balancer is a synthetic compound that was developed to mimic the composition of the exudates of plants. As such, it is the ultimate food forbeneficial bacteria. In using Bio Balancer, it is important to closely follow the dosage instructions because too much Bio Balancer can lead to an oversupply of bacteria that may over load the hydroponic reservoir and root zone. Clogged pipes are common in these cases."
http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2012/04/14/healthy-roots-with-bio-balancer-by-cx-hydroponics/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From their website, "It took a long time but the answer has recently been found. It eventually became evident that all the organisms had an effect on each other. It seems that the available food supply is the key to the success or otherwise of each of the micro-organisms. When the carbohydrates and other substances exuded by the plant roots favoured the ‘bad’ bugs then these bugs multiplied. When it favoured the ‘good’ bugs they were the ones that thrived."
http://www.cxhydroponics.net/products/bio-balancer
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"What Can Go Wrong?"
"While many root exudate compounds create beneficial conditions in the rhizosphere by encouraging certain microbes or changing the physical or chemical conditions surrounding the roots, occasionally this process can go wrong. Plant stressors, such as unfavorable growing conditions, high EC, low moisture levels, nutrient deficiency, lack of oxygen in the root zone and overcrowding, place pressure on the root system and promote the release of an increased amount of different types of root exudates. The carbon compounds in these secretions can act as a food source for pathogens, tipping the balance in the rhizosphere from beneficial microbe populations to disease-causing fungi and bacteria. Some plants, such as cucumbers, which produce large amounts of mucilage (polysaccharides and proteins) secreted from the rapidly growing outer layers of the root cap cells, may be particularly prone to this type of problem in systems that promote the buildup of organic compounds. Studies found that root mucilage supports rapid growth of pythium root rot and serves as a food base from which the pathogen invaded the roots of cucumber plants. This was prevented when there were a sufficient number of other microbes present to break down the mucilage and prevent it from accumulating around the roots."
"Researchers have determined that certain root exudates have the potential to be used in crop production as a defence against soil-borne disease pathogens, and that they also have the potential to boost growth and development by promoting relationships with beneficial microbes in the rhizosphere. In the future we may see a much different approach to root exudates: harnessing them for disease suppression as a way of boosting growth specific to hydroponic systems."
http://www.maximumyield.com/index.php/features/articles/item/1639-revealing-root-exudates
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I've gathered from reading all this is that there are many different types of root exudates..some of them good things feed from and some of them bad things feed from. Unless this information is bullshit is it not possible to use this tea and this product together and instead of brewing all the time just adding it once and then using this product in the res so that only the good microbes are favored and they outgrow the bad ones?
From what I know the only reason we add food (molasses) to the brew bucket and not the res is because both bad microbes and good microbes can feed on it. This makes sense because we only want the good microbes to grow. However, if this product is a type of exudate or food or whatever that only good microbes can feed off of and not bad ones can I not use this in my
res? Someone experienced chime in maybe? Man I hope this works.
Also, these guys have two other interesting products, Wilt Guard, and Regen-A-Root. Any input on these? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***"CX Hydroponics Bio Balancer has a supply of the food favoured by these ‘good’ bugs."***
http://www.cxhydroponics.net/products/bio-balancer
Last edited:
Green Heals
New Member
Water temperature is between 70-75 degrees. I always seem to find Zho powder clumps on top of tea mixture after 48 hours. Just wondering if it's a problem?
Stoned Tree
Member
Do you have enough aeration? I have had this happen with Great White but after 48 hours there shouldn't be anything like that left. I don't know if it's a problem but I would just give everything a good mix after you add all the ingredients to be safe.
Scroga
Well-Known Member
Don't waste your money. .. molasses is what we have all been using forever. .. Yes you could use it in your res but like you said if there is slight pathogen dominance it will cause it to bloom and flourish. ... When added to tea bucket. . You can be confident that it is only feeding the good herd that you introduced in the beginning. ... The food has a chance to be broken down into nutrient, trace etc before being introduced to your plantI have a question on a certain product called Bio Balancer by CX Hydroponics.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Bio Balancer is the Perfect Food for Beneficial Bacteria in Hydroponic Gardens"
"Bio Balancer is a synthetic compound that was developed to mimic the composition of the exudates of plants. As such, it is the ultimate food forbeneficial bacteria. In using Bio Balancer, it is important to closely follow the dosage instructions because too much Bio Balancer can lead to an oversupply of bacteria that may over load the hydroponic reservoir and root zone. Clogged pipes are common in these cases."
http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2012/04/14/healthy-roots-with-bio-balancer-by-cx-hydroponics/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From their website, "It took a long time but the answer has recently been found. It eventually became evident that all the organisms had an effect on each other. It seems that the available food supply is the key to the success or otherwise of each of the micro-organisms. When the carbohydrates and other substances exuded by the plant roots favoured the ‘bad’ bugs then these bugs multiplied. When it favoured the ‘good’ bugs they were the ones that thrived."
http://www.cxhydroponics.net/products/bio-balancer
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"What Can Go Wrong?"
"While many root exudate compounds create beneficial conditions in the rhizosphere by encouraging certain microbes or changing the physical or chemical conditions surrounding the roots, occasionally this process can go wrong. Plant stressors, such as unfavorable growing conditions, high EC, low moisture levels, nutrient deficiency, lack of oxygen in the root zone and overcrowding, place pressure on the root system and promote the release of an increased amount of different types of root exudates. The carbon compounds in these secretions can act as a food source for pathogens, tipping the balance in the rhizosphere from beneficial microbe populations to disease-causing fungi and bacteria. Some plants, such as cucumbers, which produce large amounts of mucilage (polysaccharides and proteins) secreted from the rapidly growing outer layers of the root cap cells, may be particularly prone to this type of problem in systems that promote the buildup of organic compounds. Studies found that root mucilage supports rapid growth of pythium root rot and serves as a food base from which the pathogen invaded the roots of cucumber plants. This was prevented when there were a sufficient number of other microbes present to break down the mucilage and prevent it from accumulating around the roots."
"Researchers have determined that certain root exudates have the potential to be used in crop production as a defence against soil-borne disease pathogens, and that they also have the potential to boost growth and development by promoting relationships with beneficial microbes in the rhizosphere. In the future we may see a much different approach to root exudates: harnessing them for disease suppression as a way of boosting growth specific to hydroponic systems."
http://www.maximumyield.com/index.php/features/articles/item/1639-revealing-root-exudates
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I've gathered from reading all this is that there are many different types of root exudates..some of them good things feed from and some of them bad things feed from. Unless this information is bullshit is it not possible to use this tea and this product together and instead of brewing all the time just adding it once and then using this product in the res so that only the good microbes are favored and they outgrow the bad ones?
From what I know the only reason we add food (molasses) to the brew bucket and not the res is because both bad microbes and good microbes can feed on it. This makes sense because we only want the good microbes to grow. However, if this product is a type of exudate or food or whatever that only good microbes can feed off of and not bad ones can I not use this in my
res? Someone experienced chime in maybe? Man I hope this works.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***"CX Hydroponics Bio Balancer has a supply of the food favoured by these ‘good’ bugs."***
http://www.cxhydroponics.net/products/bio-balancer
Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app
Stoned Tree
Member
Alright, thanks a lot dude. I think I'm just going to get the Regen-A-Root and Wilt Guard. Heard some good things about it and the Wilt guard..apparently it targets Pythium and provides some kind of potassium to help with leaf curl. Have had nothing but problems with my tomato plant leaves curling for no reason. I was hoping that these exudates would help but..I don't want no slime.
Also, if you don't mind, since you seem to be the only one answering really can you take a look at my previous couple posts and let me know what you think whenever you got time? I'd appreciate it.
Scroga
Well-Known Member
Hit me with the question again Bro. . But don't get to technical lol. .. As a preventative I swear by h&g roots excelerator. .I know there's other products out there but after I battled/learned about slime for close to a year, this is what got my perpetual cranking again..That and teas. . It is concentrated and lasts a while. ...
Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app
Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app
Stoned Tree
Member
I don't know how to repost it all again as it has pictures and what not. If you go on page 188 it has everything I asked. Take your time, whenever you can dude. Also, how in the hell did Roots Excel work for you? I have it and every time I use it I get weird algae growth and slime. I've heard it doesn't work so good in aerated environments like DWC because it has anaerobic microbes. I have added it to my teas a few times..lessens the foam. Can you explain how you use it and how much?
Scroga
Well-Known Member
Clean sterilize first ... If you got slime get rid of it.. Full tub clean with hydrogen peroxide or bleach... Now you have a clean environment. .. Do you plan on continuing with your already infected plants or starting fresh? If you want to use infected it'll around a week and multiple flushes and changes. .. Take your plant into the shower and really clean those roots of properly. . Removing easy loose dead matter. .. Then any remaining pathogens need to be nuked with a good hydrogen peroxide product like oxyplus or a chloramine product like pythoff. .. When good and sterilized... clean system again. . Annoying I know but you want your best chance at succeeding right? OK. .. Ready to go ... Make your usual mix.. Best to go weaker than normal due to the stressed nature of the plant. . Now this is where people stuff up with roots Excel. .. You must ph Before you add re!!! I take mine down to 5.8... And wait an hour to make sure that it's true... Then add re to bring up to 6... If you add before phing it won't work... Now patience about 4 or more you may see signs of recovery.. In this wait period you should be brewing Tea to help win the fight. .. If slime returns .. Do it again and do it better!
Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app
Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app
Stoned Tree
Member
I don't know dude, when I first got it I didn't have enough oxygen and my water temp was too hot. I have fixed this so now I have plenty of oxygen and my res temp stays at 68f via chiller. Only other additives I use that could be causing it is Floralicious Plus and Rapid Start. I am thinking of leaving these products out and only using nutes and the tea but I have heard of other people using them successfully in DWC.
Right now I've been using tea, supposed to put another batch in tonight. My slime is actually much better than before and most of the roots are very white, it's slowly disappearing..so I think that issue is resolved. There does seem to be a bit of algae on the sides of the res but it's not growing and not seeming to harm anything. Trust me, I've checked every possible light leak..Ph is stable. I hear that as long as I'm having new root growth that I'm winning?
The tiny tomato plant that I have has white roots currently growing and has new growth everyday which starts curling and drying up the very next day. I'm thinking that this could be due to not having enough roots and therefore not being able to uptake enough water, but then again my pepper plants didn't do this when their root systems were the same size. It can't be disease right? As far as I know the pepper plants would be effected as well. Perhaps tomato is just a heavier feeder and will correct itself when the roots get larger?
Also, I think the curling of the pepper plants could be due to my own fault as I haven't changed the res for a month and only started with 1/8 nutes so I'm guessing they're probably hungry as hell. Only reason I don't want to increase it is because the tomato plant is much smaller and I want it to recover without stressing it out with higher ppms.
I am curious how much RE you use in DWC. 1.1ml/gal or 0.55ml/gal or 0.25ml/gal. Perhaps I should try and experiment with this again? Do you think it would really be effective though, what about those anaerobic microbes?
Thanks for reading dude.
Scroga
Well-Known Member
Floralicious is food for bacteria. .. Drop it until you know you're micro herd is in control. ... New growth equals winning. .. Now patience and observation. ...Yes sounds like you were the problem lol
I'm aussie so I roll with the metric. . 3ml to 10 liters. .. Don't worry about residue in res... Read the plant ... is she's winning. .. Don't Fuck with it
Good luck brother
Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app
I'm aussie so I roll with the metric. . 3ml to 10 liters. .. Don't worry about residue in res... Read the plant ... is she's winning. .. Don't Fuck with it
Good luck brother
Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app
Last edited:
Stoned Tree
Member
Alright, thanks man. I'm actually Canadian and use the metric as well but when you search for help everyone posts in gallons so I'm use to both haha. Also, I will drop the Floralicious Plus..should I also drop the Rapid Start? I don't know if this provides food for bacteria as well? Also, how often should I be cleaning the res? I hear some people go months and some people clean out weekly. My res is about 50L. Oh, one more thing, I keep my light 18" away from the plant..is this ideal?
Thanks for the help!
DrCannaPath
Well-Known Member
Try hydro and you won't regret. This grow is the first hydro that I complete and I have yo say it outperforms soil hands down. Also, its easier to diagnose plant problems with such a controlled environment!
GH waterfarm is worth checking out!
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/841773/