Why No Clay? Manure? Sand? Forest Mould?!

cannakis

Well-Known Member
what I like to do is remove most of the visible worms, all the big ones, and purposely leave the worm eggs they'll hatch and help aerate your soil, if you are using a no-till it's a good way to start, i'd also suggest some biochar to start also, I kinda wish I did that, now i'd have to rip up all my nice pots and mix it up with the biochar, but I the more I read on biochar, the more I wish I started there. it is a lil pricey, but once you get your soil dialed in, it's simple from there, not to mention REALLY cheap, especially if you have your own EWC, for me i'm just getting into using comfrey and dandelion in place of nutrient teas, going to see if this harvest has any different nuances than normal. Plus, dandelion is free, and my comfrey plant cost me 5.99, and it grows well in the soil I have. I can't say how well it works because I am just starting the process, in approx. 3 months i'll have a good write up on it.
Holy Shit! So biochar is literally Just Charcoal. True Charcoal, not briquettes or coal... And the process of creating biochar/charcoal Actually Reduces carbon missions and co2 which we've had this conversation and you know I feel about co2, but I Am sure other gases too are captured in the process... But making charcoal, which is burning biomass through pyrolysis, causes Carbon Sequestration.! Hmm! Learn something new everyday! Well at least we should try to...!
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Holy Shit! So biochar is literally Just Charcoal. True Charcoal, not briquettes or coal... And the process of creating biochar/charcoal Actually Reduces carbon emissions and co2 which we've had this conversation and you know I feel about co2, but I Am sure other gases to are captured in the process... But making charcoal, which is burning biomass through pyrolysis, it cause Carbon Sequestration.! Hmm! Learn something new everyday! Well at least we should try to...!
keep in mind its NOT just simply charcoal, it's a little different
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Holy Shit! So biochar is literally Just Charcoal. True Charcoal, not briquettes or coal... And the process of creating biochar/charcoal Actually Reduces carbon missions and co2 which we've had this conversation and you know I feel about co2, but I Am sure other gases too are captured in the process... But making charcoal, which is burning biomass through pyrolysis, causes Carbon Sequestration.! Hmm! Learn something new everyday! Well at least we should try to...!
You can buy a bag of natural charred wood (like Cowboy brand) and use that. Break it up in to 1/2" ish chunks and soak it in a high N teal for 24 hours like an alfalfa tea to charge it. Otherwise it will rob your soil of all Nitrogen

edit. @Rrog is a good guy to talk to about this
 

DonPetro

Well-Known Member
You can buy a bag of natural charred wood (like Cowboy brand) and use that. Break it up in to 1/2" ish chunks and soak it in a high N teal for 24 hours like an alfalfa tea to charge it. Otherwise it will rob your soil of all Nitrogen

edit. @Rrog is a good guy to talk to about this
I may have to try that. I got some nice hardwood charcoal that would probably work great. What ratio of char to base would you go with?
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
You can buy a bag of natural charred wood (like Cowboy brand) and use that. Break it up in to 1/2" ish chunks and soak it in a high N teal for 24 hours like an alfalfa tea to charge it. Otherwise it will rob your soil of all Nitrogen

edit. @Rrog is a good guy to talk to about this
I don't have the link to provide you with, but I read in multiple areas that reg charcoal isn't the same, apparently it's a diff base wood, I wanna say it's alder wood that is preferred? I can't remember, i'll go look and then edit after
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
I don't have the link to provide you with, but I read in multiple areas that reg charcoal isn't the same, apparently it's a diff base wood, I wanna say it's alder wood that is preferred? I can't remember, i'll go look and then edit after
Rrog is making his own. He's using a 35 gallon steel drum inside of a 50 gal. I'll shoot him a text and see if he can pop in here and school us.....
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Rrog is making his own. He's using a 35 gallon steel drum inside of a 50 gal. I'll shoot him a text and see if he can pop in here and school us.....
after some re-research it's just the briquettes they warn about, apparently the reg charcoal (as long as it's hardwood and not "charred") is the good stuff.
why in the hell would anybody spend 40 bucks on a bag when you can get a bag for like 6 bucks? Just mash it up before using and soak it in a AACT for a couple days.
Plus it sweetens the PH too, kinda handy for us no-tillers
as long as its phosphate free, and bituminous coal.
 
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st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
after some re-research it's just the briquettes they warn about, apparently the reg charcoal (as long as it's hardwood and not "charred") is the good stuff.
why in the hell would anybody spend 40 bucks on a bag when you can get a bag for like 6 bucks? Just mash it up before using and soak it in a AACT for a couple days.
Plus it sweetens the PH too, kinda handy for us no-tillers
I did the cowboy brand soaked in an alfalfa tea for a couple batches of soil. No adverse effects that I noticed.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
i'
I did the cowboy brand soaked in an alfalfa tea for a couple batches of soil. No adverse effects that I noticed.
im gonna go strain some of my EWC and make a molasses tea, get a bag of the charcoal, and go to town... I have some extra pots that are empty, course i'd like to re-do ALL my pots but that's a bitch... especially the 40 gallon air pots.... makes my back hurt just thinking about it.
I really like the idea though, and the more I research it, it seems for a no-till setup it'd be almost crucial, my thinking anyways
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
i'

im gonna go strain some of my EWC and make a molasses tea, get a bag of the charcoal, and go to town... I have some extra pots that are empty, course i'd like to re-do ALL my pots but that's a bitch... especially the 40 gallon air pots.... makes my back hurt just thinking about it.
I really like the idea though, and the more I research it, it seems for a no-till setup it'd be almost crucial, my thinking anyways
Yep. I think the real benefit comes in the successive runs. All of that N, and the microbes that inhabit the porous bio char keep things ticking along in the 2'nd, 3'rd, 4'th run of a no-till container.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Yep. I think the real benefit comes in the successive runs. All of that N, and the microbes that inhabit the porous bio char keep things ticking along in the 2'nd, 3'rd, 4'th run of a no-till container.
this I KNOW I read, people say the best time is about three harvests in.
Almost like my own soil mix, my second and third runs were the best tasting and best producing
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
You can buy a bag of natural charred wood (like Cowboy brand) and use that. Break it up in to 1/2" ish chunks and soak it in a high N teal for 24 hours like an alfalfa tea to charge it. Otherwise it will rob your soil of all Nitrogen

edit. @Rrog is a good guy to talk to about this
I read of people making a urine tea.... mmm yummy... bet that smells nice after about 1 day or so...
I wonder if I soak it in a simple AACT if that'll be enough to keep it from absorbing much in my soil, logic would lead me to believe that soaked charcoal would have less absorbing qualities, initially anyways...
hmm where is @Pattahabi
i'm starting to wonder if biochar could be used as a really great slow-release top dressing. For example, if you had a nitrogen deficiency, in the past i'd get a speck of high nitrogen bat guano, and a handful of fresh EWC and topdress with that, and it'd slow release the nitrogen over time, but now i'm wondering if a bunch of biochar that had soaked in a tea would be a really safe way to release food for the plants, plus you could literally reuse it, I imagine after a couple weeks, It'd be "empty" and ready to recharge with another tea
I actually do a similar thing with redwood tree moss, I'm not sure what type of moss it is, but whenever I do an AACT I throw a bunch of that in there with it, and after I water the girls with the tea I use the moss as a mulch-type-slow-releasing thingy (that's my technical term for it)
 
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st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
I read of people making a urine tea.... mmm yummy... bet that smells nice after about 1 day or so...
I wonder if I soak it in a simple AACT if that'll be enough to keep it from absorbing much in my soil, logic would lead me to believe that soaked charcoal would have less absorbing qualities, initially anyways...
hmm where is @Pattahabi

My understanding is that you want to charge it in a high N solution. I don't believe an AACT would suffice. Rrog responded to my text and should be popping by shortly....

He'll be the one to ask these questions of
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
Grease, it's my understanding you want the bio-char to be 'precharged'. Another option would be to mix it in with your worm bin/castings. Bio Char is something I've done some reading on, but there are some people out there that really get into their char! They will be much more knowldgable then me. Let me see if I can find a few links...

http://www.biochar-international.org/
http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/makingcharcoal
http://forest.moscowfsl.wsu.edu/smp/solo/documents/GTs/McElligott-Kristin_Thesis.pdf

Cation exchange capacity of biochar is highly variable depending upon the pyrolysis conditions under which it is produced. Cation exchange capacity is lower at low pyrolysis temperatures and significantly increases when produced at higher temperatures (Lehmann 2007). Freshly produced biochars have little ability to retain cations resulting in minimal CEC (Cheng et al. 2006, 2008; Lehmann 2007), but increase with time in soil with surface oxidation (Cheng et al. 2006). This supports the findings of high CEC observed in Amazonian Anthrosols (Liang et al. 2006).
Biochar can serve as a liming agent resulting in increased pH and nutrient availabilityfor a number of different soil types (Glaser et al. 2002; Lehmann and Rondon 2006). The carbonate concentration of biochar facilitates liming in soils and can raise soil pH of neutral or acidic soil (Van Zweiten et al. 2007). Mbagwu and Piccolo (1997) report increases in pH of various soils and textures by up to 1.2 pH units from pH 5.4 to 6.6. Tryon (1948) report a greater increase in pH in sandy and loamy soils than in clayey soils. The pH of various soils
increase after applications of hardwood charcoals (pH 6.15) than of conifer char coals (pH 5.15) likely due to their different ash contents of 6.38% and 1.48%, respectively (Glaser 2002).
Biochar feedstocks and pyrolysis conditions largely determine the resulting carbonate concentrations, making some biochar a better liming agent than others. Concentrations of carbonates can vary from 0.5 to 33% (Chan et al. 2007) depending on starting conditions. Hardwood charcoals are reported to have substantial carbonate concentrations and prove more effective in reducing soil acidity, therefore having a larger influence on soil fertility (Steiner 2007). The liming of acidic soils decreases Al saturation, while increasing cation exchange capacity and base saturation(Cochrane and Sanchez 1980; Mbagwu and Piccolo 1997; Fisher and Binkely 2000).
Additionally, nutrient availability may actually increase beyond the amount anticipated by cation exchange sites alone as a result of thesoluble salts available in the biochar. The liming effect associated with biochar may not be ideal for all soil types and plant communities. Increased soil pH associated with biochar additions have caused micronutrient deficiencies in agricultural crops (Kishimoto and Sugiura 1985) and forest vegetation (Mikanand Abrams 1995), thus it is important to acknowledge the presence of calcifuge vegetation prior to application. In addition, many forest plants, fungi, and bacteria thrive in lower pH soils (Meurisse 1976; Meurisse 1985), therefore altering forest soil pH through the addition of biochar may result in unfavorable shifts in above- and below ground flora.Understanding interactions among biochar production and application conditions, soil texture, organic matter (OM), and soil pH will be a key factor in determining long-term effects of biochar application on forest soils.
In the short term, biochar may supply a source of plant-available nutrients once applied to the soil (Gaskin et al. 2008; Sohi et al. 2010). A small fraction of nutrients in the feedstock, apart from N, are retained in biochar in a potentially extractable form. It is uncertain whether these soluble nutrients are released instantaneously once added to the soil environment, or if they are released over time (Sohi et al. 2010), but will likely depend on the starting soil physical properties. The rapid introduction of readily available nutrients and small amounts of labile C retained in biochar could promote mineralization of soil OM (Wardle et al. 2008a), especially in nutrient-limited environments. Additionally, alkaline biochar may increase the pH of acidic soils and subsequently stimulate microbial activity thereby further promoting mineralization or decomposition of existing soil organic matter.
Peace!
P-
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
Another article

Biochar: Too good to be true?
June 26, 2011
Agricultural residents and converted biochar
Would you like to curb or even reverse global warming? Help feed the world? Generate renewable energy?
Biochar is the answer, say its most fervent advocates.
If only life were so simple.
Biochar, alas, isn’t ready yet to be a meaningful solution to the climate crisis, or a way to enhance agricultural productivity at scale. But it’s an intriguing substance that has been around for thousands of years, and the production of biochar may prove to be one of the technologies that governments and business deploy to deal with the threat of climate change. As, potentially, a carbon negative technology, it’s worth a look.
Biochar, for those of you who haven’t heard of it, is a charcoal-like substance that is created today by pyrolysis of biomass. In layman’s terms, biochar is made by taking organic material, like agricultural waste, heating it to very high temperatures, and allowing it to decompose in the absence of oxygen.
Jonah Levine
To learn about biochar, I met recently in Boulder, Colorado, with Jonah Levine, who is a co-owner of his own small biochar business and, until recently, was an executive with a startup called Biochar Engineering. Jonah, who is 30 and lives near Boulder, got involved with biochar when a friend asked him to organize a conference on the technology in 2009 at the University of Colorado. A passionate environmentalist, he had previously worked as a wildlife biologist and as an engineer advising utilities on how to incorporate renewable energy into the grid.
Now he’s bullish on biochar.
“I feel like like I’m watching the beginning of an industry,” Jonah says. “Within a decade, I feel this will be a functional business space.”
He told me that the history of biochar can be traced back to Brazil, where dark soils in the Amazon region are known as “Terra Preta.” No one can be certain about their origin, but some scientists believe they were created as long as 4,500 years ago, and that they helped support a complex, farm-based civilization in the Amazon, despite the region’s poor soil.
Johannes Lehmann, a leading biochar researcher at Cornell University, writes:
Terra preta research inspired the development of a revolutionary technology that can have tremendous impact on rural livelihoods as well as carbon sequestration. It builds on the application of stable organic matter in the form of bio-char (biomass-derived black carbon or charcoal) in conjunction with nutrient additions. This bio-char is very stable, provides and retains nutrients for millenia, as seen in Terra Preta.
As Jonah explained it to me, organic matter—crop waste, wood chips or even sewage—can be turned into biochar by heating the materials to between 300 and 900 degrees C. This generates a synthetic gas that can be converted into liquid fuels, used for heating or generating electricity, as well as the biochar, which is then worked into soil to improve farm productivity. (The yield of products from pyrolysis varies with the temperature; lower temperatures produce more char, higher temperatures make more syngas.) Proponents claim that the biochar then sequesters carbon in the soil for hundreds to thousands of years—carbon that would otherwise be released into the air if the organic matter were burned or allowed to decompose.
Consider, for example, the vast swaths of pine trees being killed by mountain pine beetles in the Rocky Mountains. Some, I’m told, are being shipped to Europe to be burned as fuel in coal plants. Others are allowed to decompose, emitting CO2. If, instead, the dead trees were turned into biochar through pyrolysis, and the char was then used in agriculture, substantial amounts of CO2 emissions could be avoided even as renewable energy was created.
The business model for biochar is simple: Buy cheap organic waste, process it and then sell energy and biochar to create two streams of revenue. “If you have $150,000 and 90 days, I can sell you a piece of equipment that will make 50 to 100 pounds of char an hour,” Jonah told me. He says the process will also release about 2 million BTU per hour of producer gas. “We need all the revenue streams we can get, including soil product value, energy value, carbon value, waste mitigation value and more,” he adds. The process, he assures me, requires far less energy than it generates, but the technology for making char isn’t well-developed yet.
James Lovelock, the British scientist who created the Gaia hypothesis, and prominent climate scientist James Hansen are biochar advocates. More than 500 academic papers have been written about biochar, Jonah told me, many of them focusing on its impact on agricultural yields. Research is going on all over the world, including at the USDA’s Agricultural Research Service and at an experimental farm in North Carolina. Here’s a global discussion list with lots of information on biochar research; another good source of information is the International Biochar Initiative, a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit.
Various companies in Europe, Australia and the U.S. either sell biochar or biochar production units; all are small scale. One of the most intriguing is a startup based in Camarillo, California, called Cool Planet Biofuels that is developing “negative carbon fuels” with biochar as a byproduct. The company website says:
Imagine driving high performance cars and large family safe SUV’s while actually reversing global warming, and without using any foreign oil….the more Negative Carbon “N100″ fuel you use, the more carbon you permanently remove from the atmosphere.
It sounds too good to be true, but investors in Cool Planet Biofuels include Google Ventures, General Electric, NRG Energy and ConocoPhillips.
If they think biochar is worth their attention, it’s probably time for those of us concerned about the climate crisis to take it seriously, too.
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Rrog

Well-Known Member
Hi Everyone! What a great thread! I'm a big fan of biochar. You can soak in any high-N material. You can consider soaking in a microbial tea of some sort to pre-innoculate microbes, but that's not what I do, since microbes will reproduce and start living in the biochar right away. No need to pre-innoculate for microbes. Fresh biochar will hold N like crazy, but release it later.

It's a great aeration amendment and holds water also.
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
I'll be working on this a lot closer, since I'm looking to tweak this biochar maker (retort) design so that anyone could just follow the measurements, build a retort, and get the results. I have high temp probes to set in the actual burning chambers to monitor temps. The trick is to modify the ventilation so it burns at a certain temp. Once I have that ventilation dialed in, this could be reproduced cheap and more people can make the char in volume for cheap / free.

The trick is for biochar, we'd like a lower temp pyrolysis. More neural pH and may be better AEC (Anion Exchange Capacity)
 
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