OK so me and my boyfriend (mostly his work I must admit) are about mid way through our build.
Some questions and a little reassurance would be good before we go any further. This is a 1st time build for both of us and we are going all out with it.
1st thing is 1st:
This will be our veg room. Eventually we will build a frame around this table, close it in, and vent air up and away. This is inside our house, but we figure that since it is only for clones and a short veg period, that we would be OK as far as odor. Either way we are still venting into the attic.
OK.. So this is one giant homemade box. Much bigger than it appears (roughly 8' long and 4' wide). We divided it in 3 sections. The 1st will be for cloning and we will set that up with a water pump and some of the E-Z cloner 360 sprayers. I don't think we will need a drain and reservoir, since it will be for clones only. The wall is 14" high so that should allow for enough water and space for the new cuttings, right?
The next 2 sections we are thinking about just doing a basic DWC set up in hopes of avoiding water pumps and seperate reservoirs altogether. No need for a dripper or sprayers, right? Cant we just make sure there is enough water to reach the roots and enough air stones to supply enough oxygen? How many airstones should we use, btw?
And reason for having 2 seperate areas for vegging is this:
We have 4 systems in our flower set up. We will rotate every 2 weeks in a SOG set up similar to Al B. Funct's. So in our veg area we will need to supply a fresh supply of clones every 2 weeks. Only we will not be using mother plants. So 2 weeks in the cloner section, 2 weeks in the 1st veg area, then 2 more weeks in the 2nd veg area.. At which point the plants should be large enough (after 1 month vegging) to take our next batch of clones from. And the cycle will continue as such.. Anything wrong or off in this?
BTW - before anyone mentions it... we are going to seal the wood with a 100% water proof (not merely resistant) resin. As you will see in a moment, the 1st box we built was out of plywood and we put several layers of this resin on it and I am certain that it is 100% waterproof. This resin is used in marine applications and for large fish tanks.
However, we quickly realized that the plywood needing several layers of this resin was very cost prohibitive. This stuff is NOT cheap. So we are now using Melamine coated PB. I THINK the Melamine is also 100% waterproof, but it's not as clear as the resin when it comes to this. I've heard that it IS 100% waterproof, but I have also heard that it is merely water resistant (which would not be good enough for how we intend to use it). Either way we will use the resin to seal the corners and edges, of course, but hoping that we do not need to apply the resin to the main surface area of the melamine as well. Anyone have any input as to whether or not Melamine is or is not 100% waterproof?
1st problem we are having with that is the ducting. It crunches up too much when the light is nearest the wall and it will also droop low and drag over the plants in this position as well. It is a logistical nightmare thus far trying to figure this out. But we are not the 1st to use movers, so someone out there must have a suggestion as to how to get around this issue, right?
PS - the S&P inline fans we got are simply the BEST. They make virtually NO noise at ALL.
Also, please excuse the mess.. still a lot of work to be done around here.
Here's a pic of one of the melamine boxes with a single layer of resin on the bottom. Thinking it might be wise to at least cover the bottom with 2 layers of it.
And
the 1st plywood box which is completely covered with several layers of resin (on the inside) as well as the reservoir off to the side.
I can comment on the bubbles. It largely depends on how much root mass you have in the water in what you are calling plain dwc. You can partly control that by raising the water level but also by creating more mist from more breaking bubbles in that airspace. The bubbles oxygenate the water but they also feed whatever is in that airspace aeroponically. So while you certainly don't need any feeder tubes or drips, you do need to monitor and control how much solution is being delivered above the water line, even after the roots are well in the water. You can do that with both water level and bubble action.
How many airstones is not the question as much as what kind and what kind of pump. Get a good pump and buy some airstones and experiment with them in your kitchen sink. You want a vigorous stream of small bubbles in all parts of the res. Put your hand 2 or 3 inches above the water and see if you can feel the mist from the breaking bubbles. That's what the roots in that airspace are experiencing. Use what gives you more of that, and if it gets too wet lower the water level.
ps Wish I had a place to build something like that!
You just have to go here, http://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/234683-my-first-grow-diy-dwc-26.html
to Post # 258 and look at the pics.
You will find pics of a seed grow started in plain DWC, no feeder tubes, and comparison pics of seeds started at the same time WITH Feeder tubes and water pump, that he did as an experiment.
I can comment on the bubbles. It largely depends on how much root mass you have in the water in what you are calling plain dwc. You can partly control that by raising the water level but also by creating more mist from more breaking bubbles in that airspace. The bubbles oxygenate the water but they also feed whatever is in that airspace aeroponically. So while you certainly don't need any feeder tubes or drips, you do need to monitor and control how much solution is being delivered above the water line, even after the roots are well in the water. You can do that with both water level and bubble action.
How many airstones is not the question as much as what kind and what kind of pump. Get a good pump and buy some airstones and experiment with them in your kitchen sink. You want a vigorous stream of small bubbles in all parts of the res. Put your hand 2 or 3 inches above the water and see if you can feel the mist from the breaking bubbles. That's what the roots in that airspace are experiencing. Use what gives you more of that, and if it gets too wet lower the water level.
ps Wish I had a place to build something like that!
How much of the root mass SHOULD I have in the water? Glad you brought that up, because I am not clear on how much of the roots should be submersed.
Remember, this is just for a short veg period. So the roots should not get THAT long. Of course this is an assumption, since I really don't know anything other than what I have read.
As for the pump. Right now I just have a Petco model 9904 (26-212 gallons, 140gph, 2.03psi), but if this one is not good enough I can just grab another and use this for my flower systems. For those I just need a single air stone in each reservoir next to the water pump (that is my understanding at least).
Any recommendations on a good air pump? How about this one (3 psi, 320 gph):
This one says that you can split the 4 outlets into 16. Do you think 8 in each of my little veg areas would be enough(splitting this 1 pump to both)? OR should I have all 16 in one veg area and buy a 2nd pump for the other veg area? I'm saving on water pumps in these 2 set ups, so if it helps and makes sense I can spend the extra amount.. But if 8 in each running off this pump is good enough, then I don't want to needlessly waste my limited cash.
If you have a better pump to recommend, please do so.
Here's another picture or two of the clone/veg set up. still working on it and the room it is going in.. Maybe this will give a better idea of the size. The only section completed is the cloning section, which is a bit smaller than the other 2 and I will of course be spreading out the net pots in the veg side, as you can see the chalk lines are much further apart. *Net pots are 3.75".
You just have to go here, http://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/234683-my-first-grow-diy-dwc-26.html
to Post # 258 and look at the pics.
You will find pics of a seed grow started in plain DWC, no feeder tubes, and comparison pics of seeds started at the same time WITH Feeder tubes and water pump, that he did as an experiment.
WOW.. He has those little sprouts almost completely submersed!!! Look at the one on the left. Is that OK? I am growing from seed this 1st time myself as well. But I was just going to make due in my cloner with the sprayers.
lol wait.. never mind.. thats not bubbling water, thats just his grow medium. opps. need my glasses
In any case, I know you are a huge proponent of adding the direct line to the center of the pots and having a slow constant drip.. BUT.. these two DWC set ups I am making are going to be for plants that already have roots, out of my cloner and a few weeks beyond. Once the roots hit the water it is my understanding (from many of your posts no less) that the drip system is no longer necessary. That the drip system helps give a "kick start" early on, but once that time has passed all things are equal with or without them. Correct?
I was going to use the E-Z clone sprayers in my cloner set up, then just put them in the DWC set up once they have roots.. So again,do I really need the drip system there? They will already have roots at that point. Will the dripers really make any difference?
You're right, The DRIP System or FEEDER tubes are not needed or much useful, on plants or clones with established roots. Starting a seed or infant sprout in the system is where the feeder tubes do their magic.
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