Lollipopping

this is a bloody long thread if u try n read it all in a oner, cheers for pointing me here ben, very informative buddy. think i need a lie down though my heads up my arse. think i'll go and kick my fat misses outta bed so's she can watch the rugrat.

Originally Posted by Bob Smith

No; there clearly is an inflection point (in economics we call that the law of diminishing returns) where removing more fruits does not add to the remaining fruit's growth.

However, the question is more along the lines of:

If you had a rose with three flowers, do you think that plucking one of the three would benefit the other two?

I also KISS.

So would it benefit the other two rose buds?? Is MJ more like roses than fruit or vegetables? Will or does this work for roses? I really don't know!

Bob, I have been following this thread since the beginning. Not because you have another bush grower looking to put in their 2 cents and flame on lollipoppers but, because this bush grower is looking to increase yields and efficiency. I have never spoken for weeks now following this thread. I have been looking for facts!! The only reason I have spoken up is because of the statements you made that I quoted. Well actually I am not looking to debate it with you because I have never lollipoped so I can't. What I was hoping for is facts!! From experienced lollipopers. To get some facts in this thread not arguing or theories.

My normal grows I start 9 plants and usually finish with 4-5 females. On my last grow I ended up with 6 females. By before the end I was practically out of space in a 4'x4'x6' cabinet. I had to push branches in to close the door. So I started thinking about lollipoping.

It is your level headed, open minded approach to this thread that has made me respond. I am not baiting you or looking to argue with you. I am just following my never ending quest for knowledge. I am one that has fallen for the forum hype and out of all the things UB has posted on, the most that hit home to me was to question people. Keep it green brother grower!!

Originally Posted by Mr. Homegrown

So would it benefit the other two rose buds?? Is MJ more like roses than fruit or vegetables? Will or does this work for roses? I really don't know!

Bob, I have been following this thread since the beginning. Not because you have another bush grower looking to put in their 2 cents and flame on lollipoppers but, because this bush grower is looking to increase yields and efficiency. I have never spoken for weeks now following this thread. I have been looking for facts!! The only reason I have spoken up is because of the statements you made that I quoted. Well actually I am not looking to debate it with you because I have never lollipoped so I can't. What I was hoping for is facts!! From experienced lollipopers. To get some facts in this thread not arguing or theories.

My normal grows I start 9 plants and usually finish with 4-5 females. On my last grow I ended up with 6 females. By before the end I was practically out of space in a 4'x4'x6' cabinet. I had to push branches in to close the door. So I started thinking about lollipoping.

It is your level headed, open minded approach to this thread that has made me respond. I am not baiting you or looking to argue with you. I am just following my never ending quest for knowledge. I am one that has fallen for the forum hype and out of all the things UB has posted on, the most that hit home to me was to question people. Keep it green brother grower!!

No worries sir; not taking this as baiting at all.

I'll try to answer your questions as best I can, but there are some that I do not know the answer to (and have no problem admitting my ignorance).

I'm just gonna go in order, so here goes nothing.......

1) Yes, it will definitely benefit the other two.

2) Fucked if I know which MJ is more like - I'm just a pot and vegetable grower; flowers are for sissies (just kidding Vidiot, but I'm more of a grower of function then form - if I can't eat it or smoke it, I don't bother with it)

3) Have never grown roses, but according to Vidiot (and all of my gardening experiences and common sense), it certainly does.

As far as your situation goes, that's something that you need to kinda figure out for yourself - are you interested in maximizing your efficiency, or are you fairly content because you produce more then enough smoke for your needs?

Are you running a perpetual garden, or one room where you veg and flower in?

There's lots of factors to consider; that being said, if you ever decide to try squeezing a lot of plants into your 4x4 space (a lot being 20 or more, I'm running 64 in that same footprint), you'll find that you'll be much happier if you trim off some lower budsites (and many do fan leaves as well, but that's personal preference), because they don't get enough light (in a properly maintained and even SOG canopy) to be worth your while to trim them or to let them "steal" energy from your main colas.

Originally Posted by Bob Smith

No worries sir; not taking this as baiting at all.

I'll try to answer your questions as best I can, but there are some that I do not know the answer to (and have no problem admitting my ignorance).

I'm just gonna go in order, so here goes nothing.......

1) Yes, it will definitely benefit the other two.

2) Fucked if I know which MJ is more like - I'm just a pot and vegetable grower; flowers are for sissies (just kidding Vidiot, but I'm more of a grower of function then form - if I can't eat it or smoke it, I don't bother with it)

LMAO. Ha, I'm worse than you. If I can't smoke it I don't grow it. lol

3) Have never grown roses, but according to Vidiot (and all of my gardening experiences and common sense), it certainly does.

As far as your situation goes, that's something that you need to kinda figure out for yourself - are you interested in maximizing your efficiency, or are you fairly content because you produce more then enough smoke for your needs?

Yes to both, but I like to learn.

Are you running a perpetual garden, or one room where you veg and flower in?

One cabinet for both. Small op for personal only.

There's lots of factors to consider; that being said, if you ever decide to try squeezing a lot of plants into your 4x4 space (a lot being 20 or more, I'm running 64 in that same footprint), you'll find that you'll be much happier if you trim off some lower budsites (and many do fan leaves as well, but that's personal preference), because they don't get enough light (in a properly maintained and even SOG canopy) to be worth your while to trim them or to let them "steal" energy from your main colas.

No never more than 10 to start. Only moved to this setup for the last 4 grows, including this one.

64...hmmm...now ya got me thinking. What you running for light wattage?

I tried trimming off shade leaves before (another thing I read in the forums) and despite the advice from an old timer friend grower ("leave them shade leaves alone! Their the solar collectors for the buds and plant") I did remove the ones I thought would allow more light to the lowers. I didn't work for me. The plant just seemed to want to stop producing bud and replace the leaves.

But you do have me curious know about the removing of bud sights. I would be very interested in following along with a comparison grow if your still willing to do one. Virtual or not, one could get enough info to deem whether or not it's worth trying themselves.

Thanks for the answers and laughs!! + rep 4 u

Originally Posted by Mr. Homegrown

I tried trimming off shade leaves before (another thing I read in the forums) and despite the advice from an old timer friend grower ("leave them shade leaves alone! Their the solar collectors for the buds and plant") I did remove the ones I thought would allow more light to the lowers. I didn't work for me. The plant just seemed to want to stop producing bud and replace the leaves.

I just want to comment on that, on plant culture in general. Back when I was posting at the only pot growing site available, ADPC, we're talking at least 14 years ago, there was this English fella who could not understand the data transfer of the education of growing all kinds of plant material and how it would relate to making you a better pot grower. I have often advised people to try other plants before embarking on cannabis. What I've found is that alot of noobs have never grown a thing in their life, and of course it shows as they set themselves up for failure after spending $500 or more on alot of crap.

My point being, that ALL plants require basically the same treatments, and will react basically the same. Some of the stuff I've grown for over 40 years is: carnivorous plants, vegetables, fruit trees, grapes, olives, nut trees, shade trees, acres of green manure crops, roses, orchids, conifers and other stuff, some commercially, some just for fun. They ALL react pretty much the same. When I grew orchids in a greenhouse, I would try to grow and retain the most amount of foliage as possible up to the flowering cycle. That translated to say.....a phalaenopsis with 11 stacked leaves, 16" wide leaves, putting off three spikes of 4" flowers, about 80 perfect flowers in all that held for about a year. "Well, if it works for orchids, why not pot"? I asked myself. And of course it did, the botanical concepts are the same. I have continued to follow that concept of leaf production/health until this day.

Now, I come into cannabis forums, doesn't matter which one, they're all the same, and see folks giving their plants foods that do not support foliage - buying the label name, looks, and hype rather than the guaranteed analysis, using silly gimmicks and methods, following feel-good paradigms that have no solid foundation, not understanding what makes a plant tick and I can only shake my head. Alot of this has been due to the marketing manipulation by seedbanks and hydro vendors and the fact that folks try to romanticize a weed and wrap it in an air of mystique. There is always the legends too, like Haze.

BTW, if you can't understand why the grams/watt is a farce, I'm not gonna bother to explain.

Having said that, may you all get the most bams/dratt you possibly can.

UB

Originally Posted by Uncle Ben

When I grew orchids in a greenhouse, I would try to grow and retain the most amount of foliage as possible up to the flowering cycle. That translated to say.....a phalaenopsis with 11 stacked leaves, 16" wide leaves, putting off three spikes of 4" flowers, about 80 perfect flowers in all that held for about a year. "Well, if it works for orchids, why not pot"? I asked myself. And of course it did, the botanical concepts are the same. I have continued to follow that concept of leaf production/health until this day.

Great to hear the reinforcement!

Now, I come into cannabis forums, doesn't matter which one, they're all the same, and see folks giving their plants foods that do not support foliage - buying the label name, looks, and hype rather than the guaranteed analysis, using silly gimmicks and methods, following feel-good paradigms that have no solid foundation, not understanding what makes a plant tick and I can only shake my head. Alot of this has been because of the marketing manipulation of seedbanks and hydro vendors and the fact that folks try to romanticize a weed and wrap it in an air of mystique. There is always the legends too, like Haze.

Yeap, that was me. Started out with the understanding it was a weed and ended up thinking it was a scientific experiment.

BTW, if you can't understand why the grams/watt is a farce, I'm not gonna bother to explain.

Having said that, may you all get the most bams/dratt you possibly can.

UB

Nope, no need to explain. Probably one of the only formulas I haven't used.

I'm curious as to what people's issue is with using gram/watt as an indicator of grow efficiency - it's the simplest method that I know of, is there another that you guys use? Or do you not measure at all? (which is perfectly fine, but doesn't make grams/watt less useful for people who do use it)

To Vidiot's point, it's the easiest way for me to check if something worked or not - my watts (thus far) are a fixed number, so the only difference is my yield - if it goes up, whatever I did worked; if it goes down, I'm not gonna try it again.

Well there you go.....he compared sunlight in a greenhouse to HIDs. And orchids that grow in semi shade under the canopy of the rain forest to mj under full light. I compared a flowering plant in full sun to another flowering plant that uses full sun. An HID has limited penetration multiple times less than sunlight. Apples to Oranges...

Then, he acts like I must be an uneducated kid because I don't agree with him. Much of what he says is true......... Magic potions aren't needed, healthy plants are the key, etc.... But there are things he says that I don't agree with.....and that's fine.... But I'm not going to go to his posts and flame guys that take his advice....because I'm not a soil guy, I don't have 2 plants in 4 sq ft., I don't harvest half a plant and let the rest bloom longer...... Different strokes for different folks.....

There is a time and place to remove lower growth, there is even a time and reason to remove fan leaves. But you do need to know why you're doing it...... I grow 32 plants in a 2x4 tray.....so I'm even double the # Bob quoted.......not pruning them down will result in 2-3" top colas and a truck load of popcorn buds that are a pain to trim.......
I really don't like chest thumping, but since my credibility is in question, I'll throw up yesterdays harvest pic.....date stamped.... I get this every 2 weeks....... I think it gives me the right to have an opinion.......... If you disagree, that's cool.....it's whatever makes you happy after all..........

As I said before, if you're mind's already made up, nothing I say matters...but if you have an open mind, you may see a benefit under similiar circumstances to mine...

If you're limited to a small # of plants...making single colas isn't going to be the best thing for you.......but you should find the # of tops that will best use your available light and try to keep the canopy as even as possible to get the best results. I think I'd look to scrog in that circumstance........

Debate, awesome...Hate...what a waste of time....I'll save that for my ex.....