Digital Ballast

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
As I'm pondering this, the only solution I can think of is that the mercury/sodium amalgam fluoresces more efficiently at higher frequencies than 50/60Hz. A digital ballast will be able to apply a much higher frequency signal than a magnetic, which are of course tied to line frequency.

This trick is done in electronic ballasts for CFLs, which often run at about 20kHz, completely eliminating visible fluoro flicker and audible power supply whine or buzz.
 

babygro

Well-Known Member
The payback time, if based only on power cost, would be very significantly longer than the service life of the ballast.
Nonsense Al B, this is just bollocks mate.

An electronic ballast will break even on its initial purchase price well within the ballast service life on reduced electricity useage alone, it would break even much earlier if you factored in bulb life and replacement as well.

I know you have some reservations about the amount of electricity an electronic ballast uses in comparison to a standard 'magnetic core and coil', and whilst the savings aren't huge, they are enough to make the digital ballast far more cost effective in the longer term even given the doubled initial purchase price.

The 600w Lumatek runs on 5.1-51.5 amps*, using Ohms law it's pulling (5.1x 120) 612 - (5.15 x 120) 618 watts of electricity. A standard 600w Magnetic core and coil will typically use 5.7 amps on a 120v system so that's pulling 684 watts. The difference is (684-618) = 66 watts.

So how long would it take to get back that purchase price ($200) in electricity savings? Assuming an 8 week veg and 8 week flowering at 18 hours and 12 hours respectively it would be -

8 weeks veg x 7 = 56 days at 18 hours per day = 1008 hours x 66 watts = 66528 divided by 1000 for Kw hours = 66.52Kw hours.
8 weeks flowering x 7 = 56 days at 12 hours per day = 672 hours x 66 watts = 44352 divided by 1000 = 44.35kw hours. 66.52 + 44.35 = 110.87kw hours x 0.15c per hour = $16.63 saving per grow.

So itll take you about 6 full grows to get your money back on the difference between the digitial and the magnetic coil ballast. Start factoring in bulb replacements and you can halve that figure. Lets not forget the Lumatek ballasts have a full 5 year guarantee.

Whichever way you look at it a digital ballast represents a far better long term investment than a Magnetic coil ballast, even given it's higher initial purchase price.

* Source: http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/static/articles/0506_digiballasts.asp

And yeah, I'm planning on getting a 250w Lumatek failry shortly.
 

AzGrOw-N-sMoKe

New Member
well from what i have seen the degi balests are good...they run quieter aan use 10-15%less energy...lets say a norm runs at 4 amps the degi runs at 3.5...an when tryin to save money anywhere you can this is a good idea...add up your total lighting energy cost for a year...divide that by 15 an you'll get the amount of money you would save with the new ballest....
 

m00n_un1t

Active Member
Here in the UK I bought a Dutch 400w digital unit for less than the price of a magnetic one. I'm very happy with it so far.
 

abudsmoker

Well-Known Member
Ok, im going to tell you what i KNOW.

i run 400W and 1000W lamps at first all i used was the old magnets, i took a chance and ordered a 400 and a 1k dig, i could noticably tell my dig ballast was brighter, the 2 trays both a feb 07 new bulb i was using a powerhouse
highoutput mag. 150k full output. the digital ballast produced over 10% more growth at the end of the flower cycle the yield was almost double, the genetics are exact, i upgraded every ballast to digital
Except my veggin ballasts, what i notice 3 months later is that side of the room has a crisper light big time. i think the fact the bulb was fired more efficiently resulted i major difference, i ran that bulb 2 months on magnetic, it does change the life and output!

On the other hand, buy digital ballasts local, i have had 1 lightening storm disrupt the ballast and had to be exchanged,
Digital ballast have Fragile boards. i try to power off in storms.

my electric bill has not decreased more than one half of one percent. .005%
this would take forever to pay for its self.

So Abuds position on Digital, if you want more lumens out of your bulb, for a longer period of time.

Digital. the best way to put it is, it's like changing you bulbs twice a year!

i heard magnetic hum for years, they will get it done
 

babygro

Well-Known Member
I can buy a 600W magnetic ballast for about $AUD90 as opposed to a 600W Lumatek @ UKP220 = $AUD532.

Where were those bollocks again?
Well if you use Lumateks recommended prices (which no-one actually pays) then sure a 600w Lumatek digitial ballast is gonna be expensive. However, if you actually bothered looking at the link I referenced, you'll see that bghydro.com charges a 'gnats nudgers' less than $200 USD for a 600w Lumatek digital ballast which is pretty much double what a Magnetic core and coil one will cost you. Same in the UK, a 600w Lumatek will cost you £125, against about £60 for a Magnetic. So everywhere you look in the English speaking world, Lumatek digital ballasts costs approximately double that of an equivalent Magnetic core and coil, everywhere except Australia it would seem where you choose to use Lumateks recommended pricing which no-one actually uses.

So £125 in Aus$ is $300, a little different to the price you're quoting and $200 USD in Aus$ is $237, that's not far off that $90 for a Magnetic ballast you're quoting. The 90 Aus dollars you're quoting for a Magnetic core and coil is £37.13 in GBP - you wouldn't get a 250w HPS coil ballast over here for that let alone a 600w one!

The point remains a valid one - a twice the price Electronic ballast over a Magnetic core and coil will easily recover the increased purchase price over 2 or 3 grows when the bulb replacement is also factored in to the electricity use reductions.

Your initial point that 'recovering the savings would take longer than the service life of the ballast' remains exactly that - a load of bollocks.

Just because you 'may' have difficulties in Australia of getting Lumatek ballasts for the price YOU want to buy them for doesn't in anyway negate the fact that Digital Ballasts offer better long term value for money than Magnetic core and coil ballasts.

If you can't get them for the price you want to pay for them and consider the 'throw away' cheap magnetic core and coil ballasts a better 'value for money' product for YOUR situation, then that's what you have to do in YOUR situation - that doesn't mean everyone else has to either copy you or follow you, because they may have access to digital ballasts at a much better price than you can get them for.

Digital ballasts are the future of indoor growing, if people want to be ludites and stay in the dark ages because they happen to thing it's cheaper for them to do so - knock yourselves out.
 

babygro

Well-Known Member
Here in the UK I bought a Dutch 400w digital unit for less than the price of a magnetic one. I'm very happy with it so far.
I hope you continue to be pleased with it when the old bill knocks on your door and fingers your collar! Those cheapo 'ebay' Dutch digital far eastern made 'poots' are not shielded well and will cause FM and AM rf interference - I serously suggest you check it for any radio interference.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
I serously suggest you check it for any radio interference.
Really good point, bg.

RFI can also be a warning from otherwise radio-quiet devices.

I listen to a lot of AM radio, often on the walkman in the grow room. RFI led me to know my 400 ballast on the mothers was going south from a dodgy solder connection.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
everywhere except Australia it would seem where you choose to use Lumateks recommended pricing which no-one actually uses.
Seeing as how they're not available at retail here (yet?), the MSRP is as good a price as any. Worse, if I had to order one in from overseas, even if I pay the $US200 you quote, it's yet another $100-125 to get it here, to boot- clearly no one's problem but mine, but that's how it is on the arse end of the planet.

Your initial point that 'recovering the savings would take longer than the service life of the ballast' remains exactly that - a load of bollocks.
It would take me more than 5 years at local power rates to recover the difference between what I can buy a magnetic vs a 600 Lumatek. 5 years is a good service life for any high-current device in an op.

Digital ballasts are the future of indoor growing, if people want to be ludites and stay in the dark ages because they happen to thing it's cheaper for them to do so - knock yourselves out.
I never said that digital ballasts were a bad thing at all, so put your strawman away.

I just said they're expensive- and that Lumatek's claim to increased luminous output needs some verification.
 

babygro

Well-Known Member
I just said they're expensive- and that Lumatek's claim to increased luminous output needs some verification.
Al B, you make some valid points, but I also think you need to accept that I've also made some as well.

Okay, you're the exception here because you're in Australia, your magnetic ballasts appear to be cheaper than anywhere else (probably because you're closer to places like Taiwan where they're made) and your electricity charges also appear to be somewhat cheaper as well. For YOU it appears it's somewhat cheaper to continue with inefficient Magnetic ballasts which you can keep throwing away and buying new for less than the cost of importing a digital one - don't forget though, your replacement bulb costs are going to be more than with a digital!

For a great many people outside of Australia that do not have those benefits and problems the purchase of a digital ballast offers a better, longer term price/performance ratio than buying cheap ballasts and throwing them away, mainly due to the expense of hardwear and electricity costs outside of Australia.

The vast majority of people will easily be able to recover the additional purchase price via electricity savings and longer useable bulb life well within the service life of the ballast. This makes the purchase AND retention of a digital ballast more economic the longer it continues to operate at peak efficiency. Given that the Lumatek carries a 5 year warranty, I think it's fair to assume at least 5 years working life from a Lumatek digital ballast.

It's unfortunate that you are in a position that makes it uneconomic to purchase a digital ballast even if you wanted to, but thats not necessarily a valid reason for showing as much scepticism towards digital ballasts as you appear to.

They are more economic to operate over the short and longer term than Magnetic ballasts, they do output more lumens than equivalent wattage magnetics as evidenced by 1) the manufacturers claims and 2) My own reading of owners reports on digital ballasts ALL claiming that the bulb looks brighter than the previous one. They prolong lamp life and maintain maximum lamp illuminence for longer as well as emitting less heat and noise.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Al B, you make some valid points, but I also think you need to accept that I've also made some as well.
And yes, you have; but be careful what you think my opinion of digitals is. I think they're great stuff, as I said in my first post on the topic in this thread. I just think they remain exxy and the Lumatek 30% greater brightness claim needs a verification.

Okay, you're the exception here because you're in Australia, your magnetic ballasts appear to be cheaper than anywhere else (probably because you're closer to places like Taiwan where they're made) and your electricity charges also appear to be somewhat cheaper as well.
Cheap Asian ballasts are a big part of it. Power is not that much cheaper, though- AUD12c/kWh vs about USD8c/kWh in the USA (almost the same).

don't forget though, your replacement bulb costs are going to be more than with a digital!
I usually replace my 1000s once every 12-18mos, preferably at 12 mos. They've still got plenty of starts left in them at the end of a year, even running on magnetics, but the tube output will have started to degrade more than I like. A digital can't stop the HPS tube from wearing out, but it does reduce the consumption of mercury on each startup, important for new low-mercury content tubes. Regardless, a digital offers no tube life advantage over a magnetic if tubes are replaced annually, as many makers recommend for horticultural use of HPS.

It's unfortunate that you are in a position that makes it uneconomic to purchase a digital ballast even if you wanted to, but thats not necessarily a valid reason for showing as much scepticism towards digital ballasts as you appear to.
Again, I don't think digitals are a bad thing at all. When the prices come down, as said before, I'll be at the head of the queue.

They are more economic to operate over the short and longer term than Magnetic ballasts, they do output more lumens than equivalent wattage magnetics as evidenced by 1) the manufacturers claims and 2) My own reading of owners reports on digital ballasts ALL claiming that the bulb looks brighter than the previous one. They prolong lamp life and maintain maximum lamp illuminence for longer as well as emitting less heat and noise.
Sorry, but "looking brighter" is not an independently replicatable measure. I would also fully expect a manufacturer to tell me that their product is good stuff and better than anything else; that's why I am looking for an independent test of a magnetic vs a Lumatek with the same HPS tube, using a light meter, not a visual estimation of brightness.

An HPS light's lifetime is a mix of wear from startups and running hours. I maintain that a digital ballast will still supply the very same volts and amps to an HPS tube as does a magnetic while running- and thus can't possibly increase luminous output nor decrease tube wear from running hours.

I'll agree, and have since I started commenting, that you get more starts out of a given HPS tube with a digital because of the better current control on startups.

I further agree that digitals are more efficient; you said:

The 600w Lumatek runs on 5.1-51.5 amps*, using Ohms law it's pulling (5.1x 120) 612 - (5.15 x 120) 618 watts of electricity. A standard 600w Magnetic core and coil will typically use 5.7 amps on a 120v system so that's pulling 684 watts. The difference is (684-61:cool: = 66 watts.
OK, so accepting your figures of 618W vs 685W for a magnetic and the savings of 66W, we're looking at a (guessing) ~60-70% savings on the cost of operating the ballast.

However, the total power saved, 66W, is only about a 9% savings over the magnetic ballast and the HPS tube.

Yes- it's a savings- 9% is 9%.

Yes- the digital ballast will give more starts per tube. If you're a city council running a streetlight for 3-4 years, yes, the digital ballast cuts replacement costs significantly as a streetlight's specific output isn't as important as starting up- and it's on startup that HPS tubes almost always fail. More output degradation is tolerable in streetlights. However, if you replace tubes annually as suggested by the HPS tube output ageing curves, it's not significant.

It's great to have the latest and greatest. But at what cost?
 

WordUp

Active Member
If you are open to buying Digital Ballats on eBay, there have been some 600 Watt Digital Ballat with Reflect and Bulb (92,000-95,000) sets listed for around $180 + shipping. There are 400w and 100w too. They also sell Digital Ballats by themselves w/no reflect and bulbs and non-digital Ballats with and w/out the sets too at reasonable prices. I know some people do not feel comfortable buying lighting equipment from eBay, because there has been reports that they freely give up buyer information if asked. I am not sure if this is always the case and there are probably hundreds of light equipment sold on eBay.
 

BambamLFC

Member
Nonsense Al B, this is just bollocks mate.

An electronic ballast will break even on its initial purchase price well within the ballast service life on reduced electricity useage alone, it would break even much earlier if you factored in bulb life and replacement as well.

I know you have some reservations about the amount of electricity an electronic ballast uses in comparison to a standard 'magnetic core and coil', and whilst the savings aren't huge, they are enough to make the digital ballast far more cost effective in the longer term even given the doubled initial purchase price.

The 600w Lumatek runs on 5.1-51.5 amps*, using Ohms law it's pulling (5.1x 120) 612 - (5.15 x 120) 618 watts of electricity. A standard 600w Magnetic core and coil will typically use 5.7 amps on a 120v system so that's pulling 684 watts. The difference is (684-618) = 66 watts.

So how long would it take to get back that purchase price ($200) in electricity savings? Assuming an 8 week veg and 8 week flowering at 18 hours and 12 hours respectively it would be -

8 weeks veg x 7 = 56 days at 18 hours per day = 1008 hours x 66 watts = 66528 divided by 1000 for Kw hours = 66.52Kw hours.
8 weeks flowering x 7 = 56 days at 12 hours per day = 672 hours x 66 watts = 44352 divided by 1000 = 44.35kw hours. 66.52 + 44.35 = 110.87kw hours x 0.15c per hour = $16.63 saving per grow.

So itll take you about 6 full grows to get your money back on the difference between the digitial and the magnetic coil ballast. Start factoring in bulb replacements and you can halve that figure. Lets not forget the Lumatek ballasts have a full 5 year guarantee.

Whichever way you look at it a digital ballast represents a far better long term investment than a Magnetic coil ballast, even given it's higher initial purchase price.

* Source: http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/static/articles/0506_digiballasts.asp

And yeah, I'm planning on getting a 250w Lumatek failry shortly.
Sweet info man cheers for that! cleared up my mind in makin a choice. +rep
 

iNFID3L

Well-Known Member
i just got a 400 maxibright for 85 quid, i just wanted the best i could afford.

im a happy shopper.
 
Top