DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

Originally Posted by weednublet

Stupid question but:

I was poking around here and really liked the idea of beneficial microbes. I'll be running RDWC SoG, will peroxide (H202) cover my needs for anti-pathogen measures? Is this tea only used if you find a problem with pathogens?

Legallyflying is exactly right. I grew with the same set up as you and always tried sterile rezes and h2o2, but the peroxide often seemed to make things worse. The tea doesn't just provide an army of bennies to combat the pathogens, some other benefits that are just as important are:

Forget about rez temps - the bennies love mid (and even upper) 70s solution temps. This aspect alone has cut my maintenance in half.
The roots and plant growth are greater than with any expensive product I've ever tried (and I've tried dozens)
Savings - the tea costs me just pennies to make, as I have a RO filter. Plus I use less nutes because of the improved nute/water uptake. On my latest grow I tried the same ppm levels I used before using the tea, and my ladies started to burn (although the tea itself will never burn your plants). I use about 30% less nutes now, with much better results than before.

Seriously, I never knew roots could be this healthy and white, the amount of lateral branching just freaks me out. Growing just got a LOT easier!

Originally Posted by tyler.durden

Legallyflying is exactly right. I grew with the same set up as you and always tried sterile rezes and h2o2, but the peroxide often seemed to make things worse. The tea doesn't just provide an army of bennies to combat the pathogens, some other benefits that are just as important are:

Forget about rez temps - the bennies love mid (and even upper) 70s solution temps. This aspect alone has cut my maintenance in half.
The roots and plant growth are greater than with any expensive product I've ever tried (and I've tried dozens)
Savings - the tea costs me just pennies to make, as I have a RO filter. Plus I use less nutes because of the improved nute/water uptake. On my latest grow I tried the same ppm levels I used before using the tea, and my ladies started to burn (although the tea itself will never burn your plants). I use about 30% less nutes now, with much better results than before.

Seriously, I never knew roots could be this healthy and white, the amount of lateral branching just freaks me out. Growing just got a LOT easier!

The highlighted statement got my attention. At higher rez temps the water cannot contain as much oxygen. The more oxygen in the solution, the more nutes/water the plant can uptake and hence the faster the growth. Are we saying that the microbe tea is somehow a replacement for highly oxygenated water? I always thought the ideal DWC temp was 68-70*, given that it's the best balance between max oxygenation and less stress that comes with colder water. What is the optimal DWC water temp with microbe tea?

Originally Posted by medicine21

The highlighted statement got my attention. At higher rez temps the water cannot contain as much oxygen. The more oxygen in the solution, the more nutes/water the plant can uptake and hence the faster the growth. Are we saying that the microbe tea is somehow a replacement for highly oxygenated water? I always thought the ideal DWC temp was 68-70*, given that it's the best balance between max oxygenation and less stress that comes with colder water. What is the optimal DWC water temp with microbe tea?

I had the same misconception. I was always keeping my rezes at 65-68 through floating frozen water bottles. After corresponding with Heisenberg about mid-70s rez temps and DO levels, he suggested I look at DO charts: all things being equal, there is little difference in DO levels between 66 and 76 degrees. I did, however, pick up a Sunleaves 950 gph air pump (35 watts split between 6 rez sites), and the water is almost turbulent with bubbles. I'm 3 weeks into flower on the latest grow, and the roots are crazy white, and they smell like beautiful alfalfa sprouts when I lift their lids. This was a true revelation for me, and I wish I knew about this earlier. Brown slime and other pathogens don't mind 65 degree rez temps, completely light tight rezes, and highly oxygenated water, they still thrive. Bennies prefer mid-70s temps, and pathogens can't seem to gain any sort of foot hold. Now that I beat the slime, I use about a cup per 6 gallons of water only once a week. Easy maintenance...

Originally Posted by medicine21

The highlighted statement got my attention. At higher rez temps the water cannot contain as much oxygen. The more oxygen in the solution, the more nutes/water the plant can uptake and hence the faster the growth. Are we saying that the microbe tea is somehow a replacement for highly oxygenated water? I always thought the ideal DWC temp was 68-70*, given that it's the best balance between max oxygenation and less stress that comes with colder water. What is the optimal DWC water temp with microbe tea?

Quite the opposite is true. Bennies will actually place more of a demand on your DO levels, as they are aerobic. However, anything below 80 is sufficient, and below 75 should be fine for vigorous growth. Basically, for every 10°C rise in temp the root zone itself will double it's oxygen requirement and DO capacity drops by 25%. So really the important thing is to keep the temps in a range where the root zone is not using oxygen at a rate faster than can be replenished. This number seems to be about 8ppm DO. So, keep your DO above 8ppm and you will always be adding DO faster than it is used. Adding more DO than that will give you buffer room, but wont make the roots use DO any faster and will not force faster growth. If however you have other factors forcing fast growth, you may indeed need that buffer.

I like my water temps to be around 73-75, but honestly I do nothing to regulate this. I keep my room at 80 which keeps my buckets in that range. Many things will effect your DO levels besides temperature, but lets looks at the effect temperature has on DO levels of distilled water at sea level.

760(torr) @ 25°C = 8.21 DO ppm
760(torr) @ 22°C = 8.80 DO ppm
760(torr) @ 20°C = 9.10 DO ppm

So anything from 68-77f is okay, and going above that would be getting close to depletion. At 80 not only would the levels be dangerously close to depletion, but again, the root zone itself now requires more, so 80 should be seen as the absolute limit and as hindering to growth. Considering other factors, such as salinity, will effect DO as well, 75ish is best to give you some buffer room. The bennies will thrive at 73-75, but you should have no fear keeping the temps at 68 if you want; the bennies will still function just fine. The accepted rate of aeration to reach these levels seems to be 1wt air pump per gallon of water. I personally use about 2wt per gallon.

FYI. As it seems to be desperately needed, I will be doing a complete "air stone test" this weekend to finally get to the bottom of all this hype and bullshit about small bubbles, big bubbles, big pumps, little pumps.. blah blah blah.

I've got a calibrated DO meter (know I didn't buy it, the office did, it was $789). I have 6 4 gallon buckets set up. 3 gallons of water in each. Going to set up 6 different stones:

4" blue pos
6" blue pos
2 foot bubble hose
that expensive micro diffuser deal
2" big fat round
and a 4" flat disc.

Going to hook them all up to my 110 liter/minute pump, let her rip for an hour, shut the pump off and actually measure what the DO levels are.

My money is on the 2" fat round stone.

Anything else you think I should measure?

That's awesome! I would like to confirm the difference in DO levels at the temps I mentioned. Not the specific numbers, but rather the decline/increase rate. Also very interested in your air stone tests, thanks in advance for sharing.

Originally Posted by legallyflying

FYI. As it seems to be desperately needed, I will be doing a complete "air stone test" this weekend to finally get to the bottom of all this hype and bullshit about small bubbles, big bubbles, big pumps, little pumps.. blah blah blah.

I've got a calibrated DO meter (know I didn't buy it, the office did, it was $789). I have 6 4 gallon buckets set up. 3 gallons of water in each. Going to set up 6 different stones:

4" blue pos
6" blue pos
2 foot bubble hose
that expensive micro diffuser deal
2" big fat round
and a 4" flat disc.

Going to hook them all up to my 110 liter/minute pump, let her rip for an hour, shut the pump off and actually measure what the DO levels are.

My money is on the 2" fat round stone.

Anything else you think I should measure?

*had to re-order a new DO-meter since the last one broke

check out this link, might come useful for ppl looking for 'uber' max DO lvls.. heh
http://www.wastewater.com/aeration_products.htm

--cheers

Originally Posted by legallyflying

FYI. As it seems to be desperately needed, I will be doing a complete "air stone test" this weekend to finally get to the bottom of all this hype and bullshit about small bubbles, big bubbles, big pumps, little pumps.. blah blah blah.

I've got a calibrated DO meter (know I didn't buy it, the office did, it was $789). I have 6 4 gallon buckets set up. 3 gallons of water in each. Going to set up 6 different stones:

4" blue pos
6" blue pos
2 foot bubble hose
that expensive micro diffuser deal
2" big fat round
and a 4" flat disc.

Going to hook them all up to my 110 liter/minute pump, let her rip for an hour, shut the pump off and actually measure what the DO levels are.

My money is on the 2" fat round stone.

Anything else you think I should measure?

$789? Fuck! This sounds like a great experiment, can't wait to see the results...