Ask Kelvin, He knows the secret

I am still a noob.
Forgive me.

Due to assuming heat and venting issues I opted not for a HID and I currently have a CFL setup containing 662w of 6400k and 52 watts of 6500k, LOL.

I always had a few questions on my mind.
Is 6400k all I needed for veg?
Would substituting some with 5000k or 5500k to widen the overall spectrum give better results or worse?
Is a narrow spectrum all that is needed ( and therefore most efficient), if so, what exact kelvin.

I understand people say "well I use this and my babies are fine".
But could they be finer for the same wattage and $?
Or people say "veg with 5000k to 6500k, and flower with 2700K to 3500K

I am broke, cheap, disabled, and have lots of time to kill and be anal-retentive.
LOL.
I wanted to do a bit of research before I put my little ones into flower and spend money foolishly on the wrong hardware or spectrum, etc..

I looked @ LED's.
hmm.
Maybe in 5-10 years when they are affordable per square foot.
Maybe when they can prove to flower.
From what I am hearing, any common household cfl spectrum (2700-6400k) will outperform red LED's in flowering.
Like I said.
I am cheap.
Move on.

I don't want major heat source in my low ceiling grow area. (but this is obviously cheapest hardware wise).
Move on.

OK.
That leaves me with Fluorescents......CFL's, T8's, etc.

So I guess I better find some facts.

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Facts:
Chlorophyll A absoprtion peaks @ 430nm & 662nm.
Chlorophyll B absorption peaks @ 453nm & 642nm.

Common MH systems output approx. 14000k. -HID good for veg I hear
ok.
Common HPS systems output approx. 2100k. -HID good for flowering
I hear people comment on HPS flower size, density, weight to be the best.

See all attachments of Sun Spectrum, Nlites kelvin tests, Kelvin Locus chart, etc.
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Ok So I am just going to run with some facts, and assume the rest like an ass.

Please tell me if I am right or wrong.

From the Locus chart it would appear that the lowest we could possibly go would be the best for the proper flowering chlorophyll absorption. I am guessing like 1200kelvin.
And the higher we go the best for veg......to a point due to the infinity axis.

With chlorophyll absorption during veg, it is my understanding that we only need to try to achieve the blue numbers and not the red?
And visa-vesa?

If so my hypothesis of my wasted time is:

The more I am learning, the more I think it would have been best to have a 11,000 - 25,000k vegging spectrum instead of my 100% 6400-6500k veg spectrum.
Actually 25,000k, design for tropicals, goes to a lower violet color spectrum closer to the desired chlorophyll absorption peak we want, but still shows signs of red.
The 11,000k designed for aquatic life has almost absolutely no red spectrum radiance.
Although it may not peak at the desired low 430-453nm , it is almost pure blue spectrum light and is most efficient looking in the chart,
And remember MH is commonly rated @ 14,000k.
I would go half 11,000k and half 25,000k if the products and brains were at my disposal at time.
Dunno if they even make a 11,000k CFL yet.lol.

And for flower (which is why I started this research before I blew money on all 2700k's).
I would look for a 2100k or lower.
I cannot find a actual test graph of a 2100k.
BUT.
Kelvin says to even go way lower to achieve peak absorption.
And HPS (2100k) is producing good bud for a reason.
I believe Kelvin knows the secret why.


It is my understanding that I want to achieve the most I can from, and around the peak blue nm absorption levels when in veg that I can WITHOUT producing the other color spectrums.
And visa-versa for the Flowering and the red peak absorption levels.

This should mean, I am getting the best peaking nm kelvin spectrum / watt.

OK.
My hands hurt.
So.
Am I stupid?

somehow timed out.
here my stats I used.

your math looks pretty sound... the problem is getting bulbs that fit that range. as you can tell... any calculations done on a bulb are done from an "initial" (or better yet, unrealistically-new) state. They wont put put what the box says after a month of two of 18 hour cycles, obviously


as far as aiming for the blue spectrum.... call me a simpleton but...





I solved this problem by buying blue CFL bulbs from my local hardware store.

if you find any bulbs that match the spectrum more efficiently than what we know of here, let us know. I am sure we are all open ears about that one

p.s. those were clones that were just transferred through the snow.. .hence their droopy nature... go check out my grow journal for newer pics

Using blue coloured cfl's is not doing the trick my friend. It's blocking lummens you need for your plant to thrive. NEVER use coloured bulbs for growing EVER!!!!!!

Yes.
I assume this is like the one I saw in the hardware store.
It just had blue paint on the tubes, which is actually doing you less good than a normal bulb.
Sure it is blocking other color spectrums.
But it would be blocking all spectrums, including the blue.

Blue paint is not going to help with getting more peak chlorophyll absorption.

Anytime a person add a glass shield to their HID's, they lose their maximum output of nm and kelvin spectrum.
Same as your house windows and the sun.
Same for paint.

Pretty much what i meant...lol..was just really tired and really high when i replied to it...but good job btw...way to know your stuff.

it is commendable that you are approaching the question of lighting scientifically. Don't forget the bedrock of science - observation. Observe the buds that different lights yield - that will answer a lot of questions...

email468 said:

it is commendable that you are approaching the question of lighting scientifically. Don't forget the bedrock of science - observation. Observe the buds that different lights yield - that will answer a lot of questions...

Click to expand...

Which is why I grow with HID.

I dont know I may be talking out of my ass but the glass itself seems blue... not to worry though... I also have 4 27w daylight spectrum and a 42w of some sort... same GE bulbs most people around here use... the two blue ones were more of a.... "huh... wonder what that would do" kind of investment

P.s. sorry to jack your thread... back on topic.... looking at the chart... I wonder how the light given off a fire would work for flowering hahaha.... seems to me youde be getting the entire infrared and lower red kelvin spectum range ....

Totally hypothetical... I don't plan on making a furnace grow box anytime soon hahaha

maybe I should just go back to smoking and stop talking haha.

Hey Snaggy, I know this is an old a$$ thread.... But as a researcher I have looked into all of this info as well. I understand it all pretty well but have not done nor seen any actual first hand testing of these high k bulbs. Reviewing your graphs, I see that the 25000k bulb has huge peaks at both 440 nm AND 660 nm. Both of which are near peak absorption and relative action rates... So why wouldn't this be an ideal bulb for an entire grow, from start to finish?? Have you ran any actual hands on testing? What were the results. Thanks!!!