1st grow: Stealth all-cfl: Atomic Haze

Hello rollitup world

This is my first grow, and I'm trying out Dr. Atomic's sativa Atomic Haze. The flowering, room is 11.5 cubic feet, Vegging room 6 cubic feet). I've hit a lot of bumps in the road and still trying to work some things out, but my seedlings are looking really healthy as of now. I want to start flowering early, to get buds sooner and to try and manage the size of this sativa-heavy strain, along with LST. With 2 rooms, I'm trying to get perpetual growth going.


Current supply:

Lights
- Vegging - Three 105w (400w eq.) 6500k cfls
- Flowering - Four 105w (400w eq.) 2700k cfls
Ventilation
- Vegging - 6 cubic ft - Two 120mm Nocuta NSF12B 57cfm fans 18db
- Flowering - 11.5 cubic ft- Two 120mm Nocuta NSF12B
- Passive intake - 2 holes @ 12x8 cm

The ventilation (without carbon filters) still isn't enough to handle the three 105watters on a normal day, so I'm working on a custom cool-tube-cfl-box to hopefully handle the light heat. I have a custom reflector on them now. No circulation fans, but I'm planning on getting some little computer fans in there.

I'm going for no smell or light leaks, although carbon filters and light boxes are still under construction. I built a carbon filter that has 1cm thick packed carbon in a 120mm circle (see pic) that fits well, although I'm afraid it wouldn't be enough. (there is a noticeable difference in airflow) It fits directly on the front of the fan, and air is sucked through (see mounting holes in the wood). Silicone seals the connection, and keeps a distance from fan blades.

Plants:
- 4 seeds planted 1 week ago, 1 sprouted in 3 days, 1 in 4 days. 2 are still under the dirt. 30% worm casting humus, 30% topsoil, 40% vermiculite
- the younger seedling outgrew the older quickly, both were always within 1-2 inches of one 105w 6500k cfl, only growing closer. They are almost touching the bulbs now, but seem to be loving it! (see pic below)

Doubts I have:
- is 1cm of carbon enough for a decent amount of smell for vegging? Would it be better to make a tube-style filter?
- is there a lot of stretching with the seedlings or are they normal?
- should I put water on the unsprouted seeds, planted 1 week ago? Soil is moist about an inch deep (used a meter).
- would it be any better if I gave each seedling its own cfl? Seems a little redundant at this point, but its possible.
- one of the plants is in a pot that is only 2" deep, when should I transplant?

If you have any helpful insight on my doubts, I would appreciate any advice. Thanks for stopping by, hope you dig it!

- is 1cm of carbon enough for a decent amount of smell for vegging? Would it be better to make a tube-style filter?
vegging sure, that should be fine. They really dont start smelling bad untill week 5 or 6 of flower. Then if you dont want any smell then ya, your gonna need something better then that.

- is there a lot of stretching with the seedlings or are they normal?
Seedlings will stretch without enough light. You have enough but I think you are a bit to close for there size.
I would recomend you keep the light about 4 inches away untill they get another set of leaves or two. They can dry up.

- should I put water on the unsprouted seeds, planted 1 week ago? Soil is moist about an inch deep (used a meter).
Sure, you cant drowned a seed. One thing you can do to test a seed is to drop it in a shotglass of water. wait a few hours, maybe overnight and see if it sinks. If it doesnt sink then the shell is too thick to let water in. Lightly scrape it with sandpaper and drop it in water again. Once a seed sinks then you know water is getting in there. then you plant it.

- would it be any better if I gave each seedling its own cfl? Seems a little redundant at this point, but its possible.
Na.

- one of the plants is in a pot that is only 2" deep, when should I transplant?
The rule of thumb I follow is when the plant is three times the height of the pot I transplant to a larger pot. In your case length of the plant.

The one thing I think is most important for a cab grow is airflow. without enough airflow your plants will stop growing once they use up the co2 in the air. If you can port air from outside to the cab you will have plenty and another thing, then you can run your lights at night and drop your temps quite a bit.

Good luck man and dont let them dry out, the next couple weeks ya really have to baby them. After they get some roots it isnt as easy for them to dry up.

Thanks so much for the help, Cruzer. I'll back the lights off a bit, for the time being. They have barely started their second set of leaves today.

More pics of my cabinet will be up soon, once I do some upgrades.

And by the way, anyone is free to post questions, comments, etc.

Lookin good. Not too sure about the carbon filters, as everyone in my house knows/helps so I don't try very hard on that front.
Pulling up a chair to watch. Hope you get all females.
Daniels

whatsup daniels, good to hear from ya, sorry to read about your "lost" cola - good karma should be on your side in the near future.

As for my plants, the box has maintained 80˚F with the lights on, I put in another computer fan for circulation, although it didn't seem to have much effect on the temp. I was runing 82˚, then took off the vent cover over my intake holes, and it helped. I added some water to them last night, as they were pretty dry, and backed them off the lights a bit. I'm running 18/6 now, after starting at 24/0 and adding 1hr/day of dark. I read darkness is good for strong roots.

I am concerned about the smell, not only do i live in a very dense urban area, but my rommates (owners) have a cleaning lady that comes thru every room once a week. I can get away with a little smell, i think, if i just leave an ashtray out with a roach in it, but I gotta build some good filters. The only person who knows about my grow is my girlfriend, and I plan to keep it that way.

Below is a pic of my filter prototype #2, a mesh cylinder 120mm Diameter x 110mm length. I was thinking of building a larger one and putting the carbon in between. I'm trying to figure out the best ratios of - - carbon filter thickness : filter surface area : filter length - - to have effective filtration with maximum airflow. I've timed my schedule to be off for most of the day (cleaning hours), so I'm hoping I can run filters on the two super-quiet fans during that time - - then nothing shall be perceived...

I also have to put in some light blocking contraptions, as light is coming out of the in/out exhaust holes. And have to figure out a way for that, not to restrict airflow.


In the filter below, I stitched metal screen together and siliconed the edges, which hold together well. The silicone had a cool rust effect on the metal screen. I've seen that pro filters with solid end caps, which seems like it would create more suction, I'm not sure which way is better.

At 7 days, the plants are lookin good. After a couple of tries, I made an intake light trap thats working well, which adds 2˚F to the cab, which adds a total of 5˚ to the room temp, with one 105w cfl on and no carbon filters. So, I got 75˚ room and 80˚ cab now. Temps have got up to 84˚ this week, although not too often.

I'm only watering around the outer edge of the cups, when they are registering very dry at the base of the soil. (watering well every 2-3 days, and a little bit in the day in between) The top of the soil dries up pretty quick, but they seem to be great so far. I have sprayed them a couple times (covering the leaves with my thumb, but i'm not sure if that does anything. The cfl is about 2 inches over the tops of the leaves, although I'd like to go closer! ...trying to have patience.

Do these look normal for 7 days since breaking soil? (of course, for me, they can't grow fast enough) They haven't really stretched too much taller beyond where they were at 3 days.

Pic1: atomic #1 (older by one day, yet shorter)
Pic2: atomic #2
Pic3: height - the soil levels are pretty much the same

by the way, is there a better angle to shoot from, to tell how healthy they are?

I was thinking, I made this fan to exhaust a bathroom near my Main Room. It's bent coat hangers zip tied over a piece of carbon filter. You could make one to run when you think you notice the smell, or before the cleaning lady is coming. It works pretty good. It's cheap maybe $10 for fan & $5 for the filter (lots left over to use). Hope that helps.
Daniels

Danielsgb said:

I was thinking, I made this fan to exhaust a bathroom near my Main Room. It's bent coat hangers zip tied over a piece of carbon filter. You could make one to run when you think you notice the smell, or before the cleaning lady is coming. It works pretty good. It's cheap maybe $10 for fan & $5 for the filter (lots left over to use). Hope that helps.
Daniels

Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion, and pics - - your way of connecting the filter is giving me some ideas. I have a rotating fan that I may try this on. Are you suggesting to just run this in my room for a while? If that would have an effect, it would be great to do on the morning of cleaning day.
I'm going to have to track down some carbon filter specialists or people with the same scale of grow and see what they think is necessary. Its nice that you don't have to worry about smell, man!

PS: A new seedling popped up last night, from some beans I'm trying called Sativa Diablo from Mighty Mite Seeds, which I've really had a hard time germinating.

Your plants look fine for 7 days. If you ask me I'd say it's fine to lower your lights now that they can probably handle the heat no problemo.

My knowledge of carbon filters is limited, but since activated carbon works because of surface area I think it is ideal to have the carbon filter in a somewhat narrow tube, just because it will be forced to travel through more carbon than a big cylinder like the pic you posted. But it will still work of course, so just do whatever is easiest, but if you're trying to make this grow as stealthy as possible I'd personally go with a long carbon filter that is inside your grow box rather than outside.

bohicular said:

Thanks for the suggestion, and pics - - your way of connecting the filter is giving me some ideas. I have a rotating fan that I may try this on. Are you suggesting to just run this in my room for a while? If that would have an effect, it would be great to do on the morning of cleaning day.
I'm going to have to track down some carbon filter specialists or people with the same scale of grow and see what they think is necessary. Its nice that you don't have to worry about smell, man!

PS: A new seedling popped up last night, from some beans I'm trying called Sativa Diablo from Mighty Mite Seeds, which I've really had a hard time germinating.

Click to expand...

Yea I was think even overnight and all morning before the cleaning lady might be the extra help you'd need. It took the brunt out of these in my room when family came by this weekend.
View attachment 1064159

HistoryPuff said:

Your plants look fine for 7 days. If you ask me I'd say it's fine to lower your lights now that they can probably handle the heat no problemo.

My knowledge of carbon filters is limited, but since activated carbon works because of surface area I think it is ideal to have the carbon filter in a somewhat narrow tube, just because it will be forced to travel through more carbon than a big cylinder like the pic you posted. But it will still work of course, so just do whatever is easiest, but if you're trying to make this grow as stealthy as possible I'd personally go with a long carbon filter that is inside your grow box rather than outside.

Click to expand...

Thanks Puff. Good to hear my plants are looking normal. I was thinking the same thing (about filter length), but wouldn't it depend more on the thickness of the filter itself? Because (if I imagine correctly), once the air gets thru the filter to the inner part, it has passed all its contact with carbon. - - But maybe as it travels down the tube, its getting more contact?? I'm trying to figure this one out right now, because I won't really have much time to guess and check!

Thx, I'm definitely planning on mounting on the inside, as suction is more powerful, and i have to keep the outside total stealth.

Okay, I am not sure if we are on the same page or not so I drew these to help get us sync'd. In the fat carbon filter the air would only travel through carbon for a few inches, with most of the air "missing" most of the carbon. However, if you look at the second pic, the same amount of air will be forced to travel through considerably more of the carbon giving the carbon more chances to "catch" the impurities and odors.

A personal experience of mine to support my claim: My family makes moonshine every other year out of grapes, and my dad got a little fancy and ordered supplies to create a carbon filter system for the distilled whiskey (technically brandy, but it was 80 proof) to get rid of certain impurities that are responsible for hangovers basically. That's the whole idea behind vodka actually. It's filtered a LOT. But we used a 3 or 4 foot pcv pipe to put all the carbon in rather than something short and wide. Hope this helps.

Here's the Carbon Filter I made for my fridge in the garage. I didn't smell anything, and friends that went into the garage didn't smell anything till I opened it. I'm not too sensitive, but I wanted to do it in case someone wanted to buy stuff on Craigslist that in the garage. It's wrapped in the same material as that fan. It might help you on yours. Hope this helps too.
Daniels

I think I may just be a worried parent here, but I think there may be some issues with my plant in a 2" deep soil pot. I have 2 new sprouts of another strain, in the exact same size pots as the first 2, and they are doing the same things: The one in the larger pot (4" of soil) is stretching considerably longer than the one in the smaller pot (2" of soil), and growing faster.

- pics 1/2: the leaves aren't quite as pretty, and seem to be showing something (see circles)
- pic 3: all 4 babies taking in a 105w cfl (all the heat I can handle as of now)
- pics 4/5: the sprout in 4" soil looking very good (as far as I know)

I have been watering them pretty well every 2 days, and giving them some good squirts on the day in between (because the soil is really drying out fast - - I measure the moisture with a meter before I water, and its reading about 2-3 [red] out of 10). I watered them really well yesterday, and they are looking a little droopy today (I hope not for over-watering) I've been running 78-80˚F on average, and last night, due to the cold weather, I was able to add a 55w cfl over the newborns.

I have a feeling that the (slightly problematic) plant really wants some more depth to work with, but I'm afraid to transplant now.

any opinions?

i have a question,
this is my first time growing nd im pretty much clueless bout everything lol.
but i was jus wondering if when you first put the soil in the pot, if you should put rocks or sand or sumn at the bottom first then add the soil? or jus put the soil in?
cuz i was hearing that the water drains out better if you put rocks or sand on the bottom first.

Thanks again, Daniels and Puff.

Puff: I think we may be on 2 diff pages. I was going to make a filter not unlike Daniels' example above, where i have 2 layers of screen with carbon in between them, so the inner part of the cylinder would be hollow (just like most of the pro filters you see). I'm not thinking of doing a solid block of carbon, i think it would kill my airflow too much.
Basically, I'm really trying to strike the right chord in the balance between airflow and carbon filtering. I'll post more pics when I have something done.

Daniels: does all of your exhaust go thru that filter? and where is your fan that is pulling the air through? (i dont' see it) with the amount of pipe you have, it seems liek you would need somehting very strong to be effective.

brittdog14 said:

i have a question,
this is my first time growing nd im pretty much clueless bout everything lol.
but i was jus wondering if when you first put the soil in the pot, if you should put rocks or sand or sumn at the bottom first then add the soil? or jus put the soil in?
cuz i was hearing that the water drains out better if you put rocks or sand on the bottom first.

Click to expand...

Just use a single layer of newsprint, which will allow water to drain thru, and keep your soil INside the pot. And transplanting will be much easier. For overall soil drainage, you want to mix sand in your soil, and/or perlite / vermiculite.

No offense, but you gotta do a lot more research, especially before posting, b/c these are extremely basic questions. good luck

brittdog14 said:

i have a question,
this is my first time growing nd im pretty much clueless bout everything lol.
but i was jus wondering if when you first put the soil in the pot, if you should put rocks or sand or sumn at the bottom first then add the soil? or jus put the soil in?
cuz i was hearing that the water drains out better if you put rocks or sand on the bottom first.

Click to expand...

I use pantyhose to cover the bottom holes. The rocks or chunks of broken pots help your soil from spilling out the bottom. You only need a bit to do the job. Tip from a Hippie Gardener I use. Like this.

bohicular said:

Thanks again, Daniels and Puff.

Daniels: does all of your exhaust go thru that filter? and where is your fan that is pulling the air through? (i dont' see it) with the amount of pipe you have, it seems liek you would need somehting very strong to be effective.

Click to expand...

It's the complete filter/exhaust for my A Medicinal Refridgerator and it shows lots of pics of it on there. It's a 120mm Comp Fan but one bad ass 135 CFM, that isn't near quiet. If you made a mini version I think it would do what you need. As much Fan CFM vs. the Fan Noise to be 'stealth' would let you add a layer or two to the single layer I have on mine. Here's a pic of it. Let me know if I can help.
Oh and I wouldn't transplant that yet. They need to 'feel' root bound first. Not root bound, but 'feel' it coming. Too big of a pot and they spend all energy spreading roots.
Daniels

This fan is the lower one at the end of this 4" tube.

bohicular said:

Just use a single layer of newsprint, which will allow water to drain thru, and keep your soil INside the pot. And transplanting will be much easier. For overall soil drainage, you want to mix sand in your soil, and/or perlite / vermiculite.

No offense, but you gotta do a lot more research, especially before posting, b/c these are extremely basic questions. good luck

Click to expand...

Took me too long to find and load those pics. Lol
Daniels

yo Daniels, thats great news man - - I'm really glad to see your fan at the bottom of the fridge, far away from the filter itself, it gives me hope! My fans are only about 57cfm (although extremely quiet) so I'm thinking that they can be effective by having the filter directly connected to them. I'll post up some sketches of my ideas after i source some hardware pieces.

hopefully i'll have a veg light box built later tonight, which will hopefully take care of my temp issues.

BrittDog: check out this video, which goes thru all the basics: http://www.marijuanapassion.com/Readfy_Set_Grow.html