How many Lumens are needed??

nitroglyc

Well-Known Member
I have ten, and want to get in a save range for flowering... using 26w softwhite + 27 watt 5500k... I currently have 3 of the 27w 5500k lights, 1 29w softwhite, 1 23w softwhite, and 2 14w softwhite... (just what I had lying around). how many lumens are needed to do 10 plants for the flowering stage... I know I am going to have to ramp up the lights a bit.
 

nitroglyc

Well-Known Member
I have ten, and want to get in a save range for flowering... using 26w softwhite + 27 watt 5500k... I currently have 3 of the 27w 5500k lights, 1 29w softwhite, 1 23w softwhite, and 2 14w softwhite... (just what I had lying around). how many lumens are needed to do 10 plants for the flowering stage... I know I am going to have to ramp up the lights a bit.

edit: BTW according to the net I should have somewhere in the ballpark of 10046 lumens. ( if it is true that you get 62-70 lumens per watt).
 

glockdoc

Well-Known Member
im sure u know ur gonna need some more 2700k lights. since ur growing and going to be flowering ten plants i would say you will need some more light brotha man. i could be wrong thou. it may depend on how u scatter the lights through out all the plants. can anyone help us with this topic plz?
 

strain stalker

New Member
I have ten, and want to get in a save range for flowering... using 26w softwhite + 27 watt 5500k... I currently have 3 of the 27w 5500k lights, 1 29w softwhite, 1 23w softwhite, and 2 14w softwhite... (just what I had lying around). how many lumens are needed to do 10 plants for the flowering stage... I know I am going to have to ramp up the lights a bit.
....well, you'll be needing HID lights, and idealy HPS (high pressure sodium)....and I suggest 3000 - 6000 lumans per plant, but again, of the proper spectrum. A simple and cheap 400watt HPS covers a 3ft. x 4ft. square and gives off approx. 50,000 lumens

...use your flos for veg....not bloom.
 

WhateverOne

Active Member
Cant help u with the light problem but can give u a good hint.. Try to find 1 or 2 LED lamp to replace all those small ones.. With LED's the lumen's don't count that much because u have a better light spectrum.. I havent used them but 2 of my friends are making nice results with them... with less than half of my Wattage! I use 400w hps for growing on about 1.5m² and 600w hps on flowering also +-1.5² this is fit for about 10 plants if u want to get them big..
If ure using the m² technique u dont let the plants grow very much.. sometimes just a week or 2 but you get an nice spread of a lot more little plants who dont take away the light from the lower levels this is a technique used by 1 of my friends an he farms less than me but in much shorter timespan...
Of course if the police caught you, it be allot worse if u have 40 instead of 10 plants.. They dont care about techniques they just count...
Smoking weed is legal in Belgium but owning more than 3 plants isn't... therefore my choice of just having about 20 of them rather than say 80 or so is quite simple....
 

glockdoc

Well-Known Member
well ive seen grow on this site, were people start off in gatorade bottles. ( i dont know how they never have root problems cuz they seem small but there deep soo...) but yea they use gatorade bottles thru the whole grow to cram in as many plants as possible in a small area. so if u did that, ten plants could work with what u have now with the addition of a few more lights as insurance. the only thing about that is ur vent got to be extremly good cuz the heat is gonna be a factor.
 

Riggzy

Member
....well, you'll be needing HID lights, and idealy HPS (high pressure sodium)....and I suggest 3000 - 6000 lumans per plant, but again, of the proper spectrum. A simple and cheap 400watt HPS covers a 3ft. x 4ft. square and gives off approx. 50,000 lumens

...use your flos for veg....not bloom.
here bro this might help.Watts have nothing to do with light or growth. Watts measure how much power a light fixture uses to produce light. You can tell how efficient a light bulb is by looking at watts. A 23 watt CFL produces as much light as a 100 watt incandescent...even though the incandescent has more watts, it's useless. See what I mean?
What you care about is light...more specifically, light energy. That's what plants use during photosynthesis/growth. Light is measured in lumens. In my experience and reading, lumen amounts per sq. ft./sq. m. look like this
2000 lumens sq. ft./21500 lumens sq. m. = Absolute minimum for growth. You won't get much from this, especially after the plant has grown a bit. Not really enough to flower well.
3000 lumens sq. ft./32250 lumens sq. m. = Pretty Good growth. Enough light for the entire light cycle, although your yields may be lower.
4000 lumens sq. ft./43000 lumens sq. m. = Very good growth. Once you pass around 3500, growth rate and ability goes up fast.
Over 5000 lumens sq. ft./53750 lumens sq. m. = Optimal growth. Dense growth in all stages.
Keep in mind that using reflectors, using mylar or having flat white walls, and keeping your lights close to your plants keep you from wasting lumens. It's not just about having light, it's about getting the light to your plants. IMO, people ofter overbuy lights. This creates more light, but the light isn't always hitting the plants. And that creates more heat and ventilation issues, which causes stress problems.
That's why it's still impossible to tell anything about growth or yield based on just lumens. A guy that has an HPS that is too far away from plants that have no walls near them and no ventilation may get poorer results than a grower with CFLs that uses reflectors and has a couple of lights under the canopy in a well-ventilated spot.
HPS lights are often said to generate more heat than CFLs. That's not really true...it's just that they are more efficient at producing light, and there's a smaller surface area on the bulb itself for the resulting heat to dissipate. That means more ventilation. But the higher amount of lumens per watt means you use less power and get greater light penetration through your canopy. Still, I'm a believer that well used CFL's can give you great grows with less ventilation and heat issues. If you're in a small to very small area (less than 4 sq. ft./.25 sq. m.), I'd consider the advantages of CFLs in that way.
But HPS is more efficient. A typical 250 watt HPS bulb/unit will produce about 27,000 lumens. I've seen people use a 250w in a 3' x 3' room and get good results. That's 9 sq. ft. which = 3000 lumens a sq. ft. (Really, a 250w HPS is better in a smaller area.) to give you an idea of the difference in efficiency of CFL vs. HPS, think of this.
23w CFL = 1600 lumens = 69.6 lumens/watt
30w CFL = 2000 lumens = 66.7 lumens/watt
40w CFL = 2600 lumens = 66.3 lumens/watt
compared to
150w HPS = 14000 lumens = 93.3 lumens/watt
250w HPS = 28000 lumens = 112 lumens/watt
400w HPS = 50000 lumens = 125 lumens/watt
600w HPS = 90000 lumens = 150 lumens/watt
So you can see that HPS is more efficient than CFL...and as you get into bigger HPS bulbs, it becomes a lot more efficient. There's also fewer hassles with multiple cords and saved money on your energy bill. If you've got a big area and/or you can deal with the heat and ventilation, HPS is the way to go in flowering. Still, I'm a believer in small HPS lights and combo HPS/CFL grows...if you've got a 2' x 2' room, you can use a 150w HPS and 4 23w CFLs from Wal-Mart and get a terrific grow with very few heat issues.
Peace...
 

glockdoc

Well-Known Member
here bro this might help.Watts have nothing to do with light or growth. Watts measure how much power a light fixture uses to produce light. You can tell how efficient a light bulb is by looking at watts. A 23 watt CFL produces as much light as a 100 watt incandescent...even though the incandescent has more watts, it's useless. See what I mean?
What you care about is light...more specifically, light energy. That's what plants use during photosynthesis/growth. Light is measured in lumens. In my experience and reading, lumen amounts per sq. ft./sq. m. look like this
2000 lumens sq. ft./21500 lumens sq. m. = Absolute minimum for growth. You won't get much from this, especially after the plant has grown a bit. Not really enough to flower well.
3000 lumens sq. ft./32250 lumens sq. m. = Pretty Good growth. Enough light for the entire light cycle, although your yields may be lower.
4000 lumens sq. ft./43000 lumens sq. m. = Very good growth. Once you pass around 3500, growth rate and ability goes up fast.
Over 5000 lumens sq. ft./53750 lumens sq. m. = Optimal growth. Dense growth in all stages.
Keep in mind that using reflectors, using mylar or having flat white walls, and keeping your lights close to your plants keep you from wasting lumens. It's not just about having light, it's about getting the light to your plants. IMO, people ofter overbuy lights. This creates more light, but the light isn't always hitting the plants. And that creates more heat and ventilation issues, which causes stress problems.
That's why it's still impossible to tell anything about growth or yield based on just lumens. A guy that has an HPS that is too far away from plants that have no walls near them and no ventilation may get poorer results than a grower with CFLs that uses reflectors and has a couple of lights under the canopy in a well-ventilated spot.
HPS lights are often said to generate more heat than CFLs. That's not really true...it's just that they are more efficient at producing light, and there's a smaller surface area on the bulb itself for the resulting heat to dissipate. That means more ventilation. But the higher amount of lumens per watt means you use less power and get greater light penetration through your canopy. Still, I'm a believer that well used CFL's can give you great grows with less ventilation and heat issues. If you're in a small to very small area (less than 4 sq. ft./.25 sq. m.), I'd consider the advantages of CFLs in that way.
But HPS is more efficient. A typical 250 watt HPS bulb/unit will produce about 27,000 lumens. I've seen people use a 250w in a 3' x 3' room and get good results. That's 9 sq. ft. which = 3000 lumens a sq. ft. (Really, a 250w HPS is better in a smaller area.) to give you an idea of the difference in efficiency of CFL vs. HPS, think of this.
23w CFL = 1600 lumens = 69.6 lumens/watt
30w CFL = 2000 lumens = 66.7 lumens/watt
40w CFL = 2600 lumens = 66.3 lumens/watt
compared to
150w HPS = 14000 lumens = 93.3 lumens/watt
250w HPS = 28000 lumens = 112 lumens/watt
400w HPS = 50000 lumens = 125 lumens/watt
600w HPS = 90000 lumens = 150 lumens/watt
So you can see that HPS is more efficient than CFL...and as you get into bigger HPS bulbs, it becomes a lot more efficient. There's also fewer hassles with multiple cords and saved money on your energy bill. If you've got a big area and/or you can deal with the heat and ventilation, HPS is the way to go in flowering. Still, I'm a believer in small HPS lights and combo HPS/CFL grows...if you've got a 2' x 2' room, you can use a 150w HPS and 4 23w CFLs from Wal-Mart and get a terrific grow with very few heat issues.
Peace...
beast! well done. so ur pretty much sayin hes gonna need a hell of more cfls?
 

Riggzy

Member
beast! well done. so ur pretty much sayin hes gonna need a hell of more cfls?
Hell ya.... actually someone had passed that information on to me when i 1st started growing....just spreading the knoweldge thats all....everyone should be growing there own!!!:weed: happy growing!!
 

glockdoc

Well-Known Member
Hell ya.... actually someone had passed that information on to me when i 1st started growing....just spreading the knoweldge thats all....everyone should be growing there own!!!:weed: happy growing!!
i see. got ne grows goin on?
 

Riggzy

Member
Just starting 3 white rhino's and 3 blue cheese clones...(got them from a friend).. i'm in a 3x3 area(4ft hieght) and i'm using a 250 mh/hps light with a 4 42 cfl's for side lighting..thats why i left the link above...those lights are combo ballast light...one fixture does it all you can use the 250 mh for veg...then just switch to 250 hps for flowering...then just use your cfl's for side lighting.... 5500k for veg 2700k for flowering... i'm at about 4000 lumens per sq. ft.. and i just vent the room so the heat stays down and i have no problems..my temp is around 78 with 40-50% humididty...i'm lucky i can keep the area open during the day when the lights are on with some oscilating fans and i'm able to keep the heat down...and i got a cheap humidifier if it gets to dry in the room but haven't really used it much...i use classic jacks all purpose nutes for veg...classic jack big bloom for flower..and i use rain water but thats up to you...i also use foxfarm soils....i veg for around5 weeks(i get clones from a friend)then flower for 8.. and i get almost 4-6 ounces per harvest every 13-14 weeks...not bad and its quality..sorry no pics(don't like leaving pics online you never know)...and i smoke it all with my buddies and my head!!!
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
Keep in mind it is about how many lumens reach the plant not how many are produced at the lights. The further away you move a light the more dispersed its light is and the fewer lumens strike the target. That why cool lights like cfls and T5s can be very efficient - they can be placed closer to the foliage so most of their lumens produced actually reach the target.
 

nitroglyc

Well-Known Member
Wow... that was some awesome data. I would go with the hps or mh, but I don't have the money for that. I do have access to several "clip" lights that I can use cfl's in, and I can always get cfl's for practiclly nothing, and sometimes even free. If I could find a 250w HPS, or even a 150 HPS, for free, or little of nothing... then I would do that. I am also looking in a storage building, and setting up the grow in there, so that might be an option then... as for my grow... I am confined to a closet, and I am going to be pulling some of the weaker ones this weekend. I havesome that hare very thin stems, and some that the leaves are pointing upward... not curling up, but closing up... make sence? I think that plant is being sufficated. I might try to get a better pic of it. Again thanks, I will be ending with probably 2-3 plants, but was curious for a future grow (when I actually buy seeds from a seed bank.).
 
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