Strains and Phenotypes

That's what I was thinking when I wrote my posts. A strain, or breed, is not much more than a genetically stabilized phenotype. I know that's probably playing fast and loose with genetics laws, but that's the closest approximation I can make. I'm self taught, not academically educated on genetics. Some of it "just makes sense" to me, yanno?

Originally Posted by JohnTheFarmer

Speaking form the standpoint of academic genetics, so bear with me as I AM being a bit technical here, but there really is no such thing as a "clone-only STRAIN". Plants that are "clone only" are merely direct copies of whatever special phenotype is being copied.

If the special phenotype can be reproduced through breeding to produce stable desired characteristics, then it truly becomes a "strain".

good point..but in all reality when you seperate a special phenotype it does become a clone only strain in its own right....due ot the fact you will not have a male that will breed true for that trait. So the only real way to experience that perticular plant is in a clone form....hence clone only. It boils down to the rarity or the occurance of that phenotype. To my knowledge the elite clones of the world have never been repeated like UK Cheese for instance...if it has then the grower wasnt keen enuf to notice it. Do you see were im going with this? lol Another example would be chemdog....it was found in a seeded bag of unknown chronic sold at a concert...he poped the seeds and got the chemdog line. Diff scenario..same outcome. As good as the Cheese seeds you can buy..they are not the original, as with G-13 unless you buy the fem version from Dr.Greenthumb..which is a selfed version of the orig clone only clone lol.

I get what you're saying, but you'll be hard pressed to find a geneticist who'll concede to you that a rare pheno = a strain, unless it has been stabilized to breed true. Before that happens, it's just a rare mutation or rare trait display.

Edit: To illustrate, I'm going to post the definitions of strain, phenotype, and genotype here for you so you may understand:

Strain definition - From Merriam Webster online -
a : Lineage, Ancestry
b : a group of presumed common ancestry with clear-cut physiological but usually not morphological distinctions <a high-yielding strain of winter wheat>; broadly : a specified infraspecific group (as a stock, line, or ecotype)

Phenotype Definition - Same source -
: the observable properties of an organism that are produced by the interaction of the genotype and the environment.

Genotype Definition - Still same source -
: all or part of the genetic constitution of an individual or group.

So, you see? It's not about our opinion, it's about the rules of genetics. A strain MUST have an observable lineage based on observable, stable genetics, and reproducible phenotypical traits. One instance of a phenotype does not denote a strain.

The idea of clone-only strains is nice for marketing, but there's no science behind it, as you can now see.

It's putting the luck of the draw in the hands of someone who knows what they have, followed by TONS of hard work to reproduce that phenotype and stabilize it... THAT is what gives us a new strain.

LordWinter- Couldn't have said it better. +rep.

wow ..... good shit guys ... I didnt know any of this : )

Originally Posted by LordWinter

I get what you're saying, but you'll be hard pressed to find a geneticist who'll concede to you that a rare pheno = a strain, unless it has been stabilized to breed true. Before that happens, it's just a rare mutation or rare trait display.

Edit: To illustrate, I'm going to post the definitions of strain, phenotype, and genotype here for you so you may understand:

Strain definition - From Merriam Webster online -
a : Lineage, Ancestry
b : a group of presumed common ancestry with clear-cut physiological but usually not morphological distinctions <a high-yielding strain of winter wheat>; broadly : a specified infraspecific group (as a stock, line, or ecotype)

Phenotype Definition - Same source -
: the observable properties of an organism that are produced by the interaction of the genotype and the environment.

Genotype Definition - Still same source -
: all or part of the genetic constitution of an individual or group.

So, you see? It's not about our opinion, it's about the rules of genetics. A strain MUST have an observable lineage based on observable, stable genetics, and reproducible phenotypical traits. One instance of a phenotype does not denote a strain.

The idea of clone-only strains is nice for marketing, but there's no science behind it, as you can now see.

It's putting the luck of the draw in the hands of someone who knows what they have, followed by TONS of hard work to reproduce that phenotype and stabilize it... THAT is what gives us a new strain.

ok you win....thats not the orig intention of my post but feel free to keep educating the masses

really ... I'm all ears

me too ...