First-time cloning difficulties - help needed.

J

justpassingthrough

Member
Hope this is the right sub-forum for this question.

Having had a lot of trouble trying to successfully create clones,
we sprung for a TurboKlone - the 48-site version. Our first attempt
with it was sloppy, the cuttings didn't root, and the tank, pump,
manifold, and nozzles all got gummed up with algae. So we decided
to get rigorous about it.

First we gave everything a good flushing with with tap water to clean
the visible algae out, scrubbed out the inside of the unit, and gave
the neoprene collars a boiling-water bath. Then we ran a 10% bleach
in tapwater (our water's ultra-hard here) solution through for 24
hours to sterilize it. Then we dumped the bleach/tapwater and replaced
it with store-bought RO water (pH 7) to which I added 100ml of 3%
hydrogen peroxide, because that's what I had handy. I based the
concentration on the recommendation in an article I'd read to use
1ml/gallon (sorry about the mixed units...) of 35% H2O2, and the tank
is about 13 litres, so the math works. We ran that for another 24
hours before we made the new cuttings from our fat and happy mothers.
We used a sterilized blade to make the cuttings, and immediately
immersed them in the clean (bottled) water in order to prevent air
embolisms. Each cutting then got a little dip in Wilson Roots IBA
rooting gel before insertion into the collar. Then we put the dome
on and put the unit directly beneath a pair of 4' 40W Sylvania Gro-Lux
tubes. They're T12. Everyone talks about T5. Does it matter?

After a week, we had no new roots whatsoever, so we started to look at
the variables. B'cuzz Root Stimulator had been suggested to us, so we
added about 12ml as directed. Also, we thought water temperature
might be an issue (it's running the basement where it's rather cool),
so we added a heater to the TurboKlone's tank to bring the temp up to
75F. And since everything we've read says that we should be a little
on the acidic side, a bit of phosphoric acid was added to bring the pH
down into the 6.0-6.5 neighborhood. Finally, we'd been told that the
rooting gel is a bad idea when trying to do aeroponic cloning because
it clogs the cut stem. We'd actually been concerned that the constant
spray would wash it off before it could do its work, but I guess that's
not the case. So we added the specified amount of cloner liquid (2ml
of a .6% IBA and .1% B1 solution per litre) to the tank and recut the
bottoms off of a bunch of the cuttings. Another week's passed, and
pretty much everything's dead.

Oh - and I should mention that we're running the lights 18on/6off.

So we could use some guidance. I suspect the first go-round wasn't
quite right and that the cuttings were already too compromised by the
time we tuned things up and recut them, so we're ready to clean it
all out and give it another go. But I don't want to do it until we've
gotten opinions from the experienced hands here. Anyone?

Thanks much in advance.
 
D

don2009

Well-Known Member
I've been trying to clone for months I did almost everything you did except the RO water I let my tap water sit for a day but they say here to the water is extremely hard too. I think mine is the temps my temps are to high I keep them at 79F-83F ppl say thats to high they will def die. What do you keep you temps at? And I was using siccisors so now I swtich to a blade to cut. If your res temp is at 75F that seems right. Thats my issue is the heat cuz its in a walk in closet I think thats the issue with me I really hope thats the problem, it seems like your doing everything right tho. But when you find out I subb'd to find out also cuz im stressing this. I been trying for months. Good luck bro that sucks.
 
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO

VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO

New Member
your making it WAAAY to difficult, get some rapid rooters, rooting gel and olivia's cloning solution. soak rooter for 5 minutes in 3/4 ounce olivia's to 1 gal r/o water, cut clone, shave off outside layer at bottom of stem,dip in gel,be generous, stick in rooter until you feel stem hit the bottom and clone stands on it's own, I like to see a little gel coming out the top of the hole, stick under lights and in 2 weeks your ready to roll. I like to give them a 20/4 light cycle, that's just my choice though.
 
rucca

rucca

Active Member
I have a 5 gallon bucket that with airstones in it. Fill it almost all the way with water, drill holes in lid. So now we have a bubbling 5 gallon bucket with holes in the lid. Dip your cutting in rooting hormone (I use the cheap garbage from the garden store) - shove it in a hole. The cutting should have leaves or a little peice of stem to use as arms to hold it up sorta. Sometimes, if after a week or so they don't have roots, I'll dip them in more power. If they didn't have roots by dip 2, they get them in a few days. I keep this in my flower room, I take my clones from the lower branches of newly flowering plants. Anyway, it isn't fancy - you're shit sounds too fancy, overcomplicated. Try a few different simple methods and I'm sure you'll get results.
 
D

don2009

Well-Known Member
No body talk about temps/humid. Enviromental shit I dont think clones can clone in 85F can they? or in 65F I think the easy part is just cutting, stick, dip, shit, what ever yall pros say. I think most ppl that try cloning, and is not succesful is because of atmosphere, temps, humid, cleanliness, of resv. (Thats my problem now) I really need help cloning and thats all I been getting most of the time. "You guys make to hard". I did all the shit justpassing through does because thats what it led me to do. I tryed just clip, dip, stick shit, I tried forgetting about them, I tried changing water every day and now im down to my temps being lowerd (Im wating to buy a portable ac) And I need to use RO water too, and a razor blade if this shit dont work I quit. :( If you think theres anything else let us know. WHAT DO YOU GUYS KEEP YOUR TEMPS, HUMID, RESV TEMP, ATMOPHERE AT????
 
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO

VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO

New Member
don2009 said:
No body talk about temps/humid. Enviromental shit I dont think clones can clone in 85F can they? or in 65F I think the easy part is just cutting, stick, dip, shit, what ever yall pros say. I think most ppl that try cloning, and is not succesful is because of atmosphere, temps, humid, cleanliness, of resv. (Thats my problem now) I really need help cloning and thats all I been getting most of the time. "You guys make to hard". I did all the shit justpassing through does because thats what it led me to do. I tryed just clip, dip, stick shit, I tried forgetting about them, I tried changing water every day and now im down to my temps being lowerd (Im wating to buy a portable ac) And I need to use RO water too, and a razor blade if this shit dont work I quit. :( If you think theres anything else let us know. WHAT DO YOU GUYS KEEP YOUR TEMPS, HUMID, RESV TEMP, ATMOPHERE AT????
Click to expand...
you don't have to use r/o water, but it helps, it also helps to p.h. the water,If your water is a p.h of 7.5 or more, that will cause a problem also,you can get distilled water from the store. you need a sterile razorblade, the outside ambient temps aren't that important unless it's below 68 or above say 85, your resivoir temps on the other hand, have everything to do with it. How close are you putting the lights, what kind of lights are you using?
 
J

justpassingthrough

Member
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO said:
your making it WAAAY to difficult, get some rapid rooters, rooting gel and olivia's cloning solution. soak rooter for 5 minutes in 3/4 ounce olivia's to 1 gal r/o water, cut clone, shave off outside layer at bottom of stem,dip in gel,be generous, stick in rooter until you feel stem hit the bottom and clone stands on it's own, I like to see a little gel coming out the top of the hole, stick under lights and in 2 weeks your ready to roll. I like to give them a 20/4 light cycle, that's just my choice though.
Click to expand...
I hear what you're saying, but don2009 is making the right point: You're not giving us enough environmental information. I don't know whether you're actually in Santa Ana, but I've been there, and it's humid. Very humid. Here it's dry like the desert. So when I tried my first batch of clones a few months ago I took the simplest possible route, just following the Seymour Buds playbook: Soak the rockwool cubes in pH-adjusted (I used acetic acid to bring it down around 5.0) tap water, then cut, dip in rooting gel, stuff in, and put under lights in a domed tray. Not a single cutting took - the cubes either dried out or (when we added more water) the cuttings rotted. That's why I blew a few hundred bucks on the TurboKlone - not because I'm a gadget freak, but because the problem really seemed to be environmental, and a cloning system like this promises to reduce the environmental variables.
 
D

don2009

Well-Known Member
justpassingthrough said:
I hear what you're saying, but don2009 is making the right point: You're not giving us enough environmental information. I don't know whether you're actually in Santa Ana, but I've been there, and it's humid. Very humid. Here it's dry like the desert. So when I tried my first batch of clones a few months ago I took the simplest possible route, just following the Seymour Buds playbook: Soak the rockwool cubes in pH-adjusted (I used acetic acid to bring it down around 5.0) tap water, then cut, dip in rooting gel, stuff in, and put under lights in a domed tray. Not a single cutting took - the cubes either dried out or (when we added more water) the cuttings rotted. That's why I blew a few hundred bucks on the TurboKlone - not because I'm a gadget freak, but because the problem really seemed to be environmental, and a cloning system like this promises to reduce the environmental variables.
Click to expand...
You must be from the Valley LOL Yeah That is what exactly I did and nothing the shit is so streesful I'm always stressing when I cut.,
 
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO

VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO

New Member
justpassingthrough said:
I hear what you're saying, but don2009 is making the right point: You're not giving us enough environmental information. I don't know whether you're actually in Santa Ana, but I've been there, and it's humid. Very humid. Here it's dry like the desert. So when I tried my first batch of clones a few months ago I took the simplest possible route, just following the Seymour Buds playbook: Soak the rockwool cubes in pH-adjusted (I used acetic acid to bring it down around 5.0) tap water, then cut, dip in rooting gel, stuff in, and put under lights in a domed tray. Not a single cutting took - the cubes either dried out or (when we added more water) the cuttings rotted. That's why I blew a few hundred bucks on the TurboKlone - not because I'm a gadget freak, but because the problem really seemed to be environmental, and a cloning system like this promises to reduce the environmental variables.
Click to expand...
try misting them regularly
 
Little Tommy

Little Tommy

Well-Known Member
I understand you are all (everyone having trouble) frustrated. In the beginning, there was much death. That is part of learning to be the plant whisperer. You are going to get this sorted out. I had a friend that showed me (at his grow) how to do it. I came home and took 8 cuttings (I only had 2 mothers) and they all died. When my friend did it, he stressed to me that this was easy. All of his clones live. He gets rid of a bunch because he only keeps the best ones to continue the genetics. The next time I tried again the same way and I had 2 survive. Eureka! Success! What did I do differently? I paid close attention to every phase of the cloning. I read every thread I could find on RIU on cloning. It seemed like I am doing it correctly. Maybe I just needed more practice. I saw a video online where a guy was saying how easy it was to clone and it was pissing me off. To add insult to injury, he proceeded to bite a cutting off of a plant with his teeth and made a clone with it. There are as many different ways to clone as there are ice cream. Everyone will defend that their way is best. The only way that matters is the way that YOU choose. Try some different things. I have. I am currently cloning using fog-ponics.

I started out growing in soil so it made sense that I would clone into soil in a small peat pot. Everybody has the process right. That part doesn't change. All that changes is the environment and the medium that you are cloning to. Before I do anything, I get ALL the stuff out that I am going to need. I get my PHed water, razor blade, petri dish, Olivias cloning gel and a container to put the cuttings in. All equipment is cleaned with Isopropyl alcohol and allowed to air dry. Now, I choose my cuttings. After looking at them all (I am partial to lower branches) I hang a rubber band on the cuttings I am going to take. I fill the container with PHed water where the cuttings will go until they are processed. I make sure that wherever the clones are going, the medium is ready. I pour some PHed water into the glass petri dish. I open the top of the cloning gel and put some in a sterile container and put the top back on the cloning gel. I take my sterile razor (I sometimes use some nice scissors a friend gave me, they are sharp as a razor) and take the cutting from the mother plant on a 45 degree angle and place it directly into the container of water and push it completely under making sure the stem stays under the water line as they tend to float. Continue this process until you have taken all your cuttings but I like to only do a limit of 8 at a time. I process one at a time from the bucket into the medium, whatever it might be. I take the cutting and look at it to decide where I am going to cut it, then remove any vegetation that is going to be a drain on the system. The less foliage you are supporting the faster they will root. I like to leave at least 2 nodes and usually 4 in most cases depending on the size of the cutting. I then lay the stem of the cutting in the petri dish full of PHed water. I use the razor to gently rough up the cellulose in the area where the cloning gel will go while I turn it to be sure to get all sides. I then make my final 45 degree cut on the stem under water. It goes directly from there into the cloning gel. I let it set for 30 seconds and into the medium it goes. I provide a 90+ humidity environment and keep temps between 75-80F. I also found that when it is medium appropriate the addition of a heat mat can accelerate rooting. I mist my clones as much as 4 x per day early on and after the first week, only 2x a day. The Important thing is for you to not get discouraged. There are always more ways to do it, you have to find which way gives you the most success. I hope that helps some.
 
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO

VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO

New Member
Little Tommy said:
I understand you are all (everyone having trouble) frustrated. In the beginning, there was much death. That is part of learning to be the plant whisperer. You are going to get this sorted out. I had a friend that showed me (at his grow) how to do it. I came home and took 8 cuttings (I only had 2 mothers) and they all died. When my friend did it, he stressed to me that this was easy. All of his clones live. He gets rid of a bunch because he only keeps the best ones to continue the genetics. The next time I tried again the same way and I had 2 survive. Eureka! Success! What did I do differently? I paid close attention to every phase of the cloning. I read every thread I could find on RIU on cloning. It seemed like I am doing it correctly. Maybe I just needed more practice. I saw a video online where a guy was saying how easy it was to clone and it was pissing me off. To add insult to injury, he proceeded to bite a cutting off of a plant with his teeth and made a clone with it. There are as many different ways to clone as there are ice cream. Everyone will defend that their way is best. The only way that matters is the way that YOU choose. Try some different things. I have. I am currently cloning using fog-ponics.

I started out growing in soil so it made sense that I would clone into soil in a small peat pot. Everybody has the process right. That part doesn't change. All that changes is the environment and the medium that you are cloning to. Before I do anything, I get ALL the stuff out that I am going to need. I get my PHed water, razor blade, petri dish, Olivias cloning gel and a container to put the cuttings in. All equipment is cleaned with Isopropyl alcohol and allowed to air dry. Now, I choose my cuttings. After looking at them all (I am partial to lower branches) I hang a rubber band on the cuttings I am going to take. I fill the container with PHed water where the cuttings will go until they are processed. I make sure that wherever the clones are going, the medium is ready. I pour some PHed water into the glass petri dish. I open the top of the cloning gel and put some in a sterile container and put the top back on the cloning gel. I take my sterile razor (I sometimes use some nice scissors a friend gave me, they are sharp as a razor) and take the cutting from the mother plant on a 45 degree angle and place it directly into the container of water and push it completely under making sure the stem stays under the water line as they tend to float. Continue this process until you have taken all your cuttings but I like to only do a limit of 8 at a time. I process one at a time from the bucket into the medium, whatever it might be. I take the cutting and look at it to decide where I am going to cut it, then remove any vegetation that is going to be a drain on the system. The less foliage you are supporting the faster they will root. I like to leave at least 2 nodes and usually 4 in most cases depending on the size of the cutting. I then lay the stem of the cutting in the petri dish full of PHed water. I use the razor to gently rough up the cellulose in the area where the cloning gel will go while I turn it to be sure to get all sides. I then make my final 45 degree cut on the stem under water. It goes directly from there into the cloning gel. I let it set for 30 seconds and into the medium it goes. I provide a 90+ humidity environment and keep temps between 75-80F. I also found that when it is medium appropriate the addition of a heat mat can accelerate rooting. I mist my clones as much as 4 x per day early on and after the first week, only 2x a day. The Important thing is for you to not get discouraged. There are always more ways to do it, you have to find which way gives you the most success. I hope that helps some.
Click to expand...
one thing I notice you do that I do is to scrape the bottom of the cutting to expose the moist fibers under the skin, I really think that helps to get the roots going faster. that and being very generous with the rooting gel, I like to see it ooze out of the top of the rooter hole
 
D

don2009

Well-Known Member
Little Tommy said:
I understand you are all (everyone having trouble) frustrated. In the beginning, there was much death. That is part of learning to be the plant whisperer. You are going to get this sorted out. I had a friend that showed me (at his grow) how to do it. I came home and took 8 cuttings (I only had 2 mothers) and they all died. When my friend did it, he stressed to me that this was easy. All of his clones live. He gets rid of a bunch because he only keeps the best ones to continue the genetics. The next time I tried again the same way and I had 2 survive. Eureka! Success! What did I do differently? I paid close attention to every phase of the cloning. I read every thread I could find on RIU on cloning. It seemed like I am doing it correctly. Maybe I just needed more practice. I saw a video online where a guy was saying how easy it was to clone and it was pissing me off. To add insult to injury, he proceeded to bite a cutting off of a plant with his teeth and made a clone with it. There are as many different ways to clone as there are ice cream. Everyone will defend that their way is best. The only way that matters is the way that YOU choose. Try some different things. I have. I am currently cloning using fog-ponics.

I started out growing in soil so it made sense that I would clone into soil in a small peat pot. Everybody has the process right. That part doesn't change. All that changes is the environment and the medium that you are cloning to. Before I do anything, I get ALL the stuff out that I am going to need. I get my PHed water, razor blade, petri dish, Olivias cloning gel and a container to put the cuttings in. All equipment is cleaned with Isopropyl alcohol and allowed to air dry. Now, I choose my cuttings. After looking at them all (I am partial to lower branches) I hang a rubber band on the cuttings I am going to take. I fill the container with PHed water where the cuttings will go until they are processed. I make sure that wherever the clones are going, the medium is ready. I pour some PHed water into the glass petri dish. I open the top of the cloning gel and put some in a sterile container and put the top back on the cloning gel. I take my sterile razor (I sometimes use some nice scissors a friend gave me, they are sharp as a razor) and take the cutting from the mother plant on a 45 degree angle and place it directly into the container of water and push it completely under making sure the stem stays under the water line as they tend to float. Continue this process until you have taken all your cuttings but I like to only do a limit of 8 at a time. I process one at a time from the bucket into the medium, whatever it might be. I take the cutting and look at it to decide where I am going to cut it, then remove any vegetation that is going to be a drain on the system. The less foliage you are supporting the faster they will root. I like to leave at least 2 nodes and usually 4 in most cases depending on the size of the cutting. I then lay the stem of the cutting in the petri dish full of PHed water. I use the razor to gently rough up the cellulose in the area where the cloning gel will go while I turn it to be sure to get all sides. I then make my final 45 degree cut on the stem under water. It goes directly from there into the cloning gel. I let it set for 30 seconds and into the medium it goes. I provide a 90+ humidity environment and keep temps between 75-80F. I also found that when it is medium appropriate the addition of a heat mat can accelerate rooting. I mist my clones as much as 4 x per day early on and after the first week, only 2x a day. The Important thing is for you to not get discouraged. There are always more ways to do it, you have to find which way gives you the most success. I hope that helps some.
Click to expand...
Thanks bro Im going to do what you do step by step much appreciated, I really thought it was just me.
 
J

justpassingthrough

Member
Thanks for the input, guys. You've given me ideas for a few things to try, but I still feel a little lost - I think it would help to hear from someone else using one of these aeroponic cloners like the EZClone or TurboKlone. Perhaps I'll post again and see if there's anyone here with experience with one of them.
 
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