Need co2 help

aeviaanah · Jan 2, 2011

I just bought a co2 tank, regulator, and an electric solenoid valve. everything is leak free and working properly...take a look at how i have this setup and tell me if i am doing this properly.

I think co2 is heavier than air so i decided to put co2 hoses just above canopy level.... I took and installed a fishtank air manifold- 1 outlet converts to 3. I have three outlets at the same elevation, one at each light.

Here she is 20lb co2 tank.

Left side of grow room, look just under the light...you can see the outlet tube

The middle tube can be seen taped to the wall

You can see the third tube hanging there.

Another shot....

That pretty much sums it up for the grow room. I used a co2 calculator and came up with this...not sure about the best flow meter setting but i started with 10. Room dimensions are 8'x10'x8'

Grow room area: 640 cubic feet
Amount of CO2 required: 0.768 cubic feet
On time: 4.608 minutes

At this flow rate:
If you are using a 20 pound CO2 bottle with a regulator, it will last 17.48 hours.
If you have a CO2 Generator a 5 gallon propane tank will last 54 hours.

When running tank for the on time reqd, i close up the tent, shut off all exhaust and keep room fans running, should i shut these off too? How long should i wait for plants to absorb co2 before turning exhaust back on? Seem like i am doing everything right?

I appreciate any help given thanks!!

ecofrog · Jan 3, 2011

you need some sort of monitor. You could be killing yourself or your plants without even knowing it or severely lacking CO2 at times. Its like asking us to help you drive your car blindfolded without you ever have driven a car before. Im afraid that is my best answer.

Your setup looks fine. There is a washer that fits between your connection and the tank connection that the CO2 refill place will have. They give me mine for free and it really helped with any sort of leak issue.

Let CO2 fall from many places in the ceiling if you can as its heavier than air.

legallyflying · Jan 3, 2011

no way in fuck will it take 5 minutes to fill that room with co2. At 1500 ppm your co2 should last about 90 total hours. You really do need a monitor however. sorry, jsut the way it is.

aeviaanah · Jan 3, 2011

legallyflying said:
no way in fuck will it take 5 minutes to fill that room with co2. At 1500 ppm your co2 should last about 90 total hours. You really do need a monitor however. sorry, jsut the way it is.

are you aware this is math and flow setting is set to 10psi? flow setting can play a big role in the equation. should we unsticky the co2 calculator? tell me what i am missing here.

laughingduck · Jan 4, 2011

Get a controller, seal the room, run co2 with the flowering lights on. I do not worry about where the hoses hang (if you have proper circulation of air in the room then the co2 will disperse evenly). Another problem i have had is the air pumps should not be sucking from a co2 enriched area, this causes ph in tanks to constantly creep up. You will need a dehumidifier if you do not have one already. Oh , one more thing consider a 50# tank from a welding supply, costs me about 20 bucks for 50# refill.

r3dn3ck · Jan 4, 2011

I use a 5x5x8 room and I typically run in 3cuft of CO2 per day. To do so it's programmed to release gas for 15 minutes 4x a day at 3cubic feet per hour). I should see 60 days a bottle. I couldn't tell you the PPM I'm ending up with which is probably a mistake (waiting for funds for a meter). It would appear we are both making the same mistake, not using a meter. Your dispersal setup is decent. As long as the exhaust fans are off, you can run the room fans provided you have an otherwise well sealed room. FWIW, I'm using probably 4x the amount of gas I should have to due to my room being not totally sealed. It vents and recirculates to the rest of the big-ass room it's contained in so I like to build the level for the whole room. CO2 is cheap anyway.

You know your flow rate from the meter, in cubic feet per hour, and how long you've programmed it to run for over each 24hr period so you'll know how long you get out of a bottle from there since a bottle only holds so much (180cubc feet). The only way to get a specific PPM in the room to exist either at a given time or throughout the day is to use a controller that is triggered based on PPM.

So, get a meter. Get me one too.

aeviaanah · Jan 4, 2011

laughingduck said:
Get a controller, seal the room, run co2 with the flowering lights on. I do not worry about where the hoses hang (if you have proper circulation of air in the room then the co2 will disperse evenly). Another problem i have had is the air pumps should not be sucking from a co2 enriched area, this causes ph in tanks to constantly creep up. You will need a dehumidifier if you do not have one already. Oh , one more thing consider a 50# tank from a welding supply, costs me about 20 bucks for 50# refill.

Thanks for the response, i wasnt aware of co2 raising ph in hydro setups...I will be sure to monitor that as well. I do not have a humidifier but room is pretty dry, even after a good dose of co2...is this because co2 will naturally raise humidity? RH in room started at 6 and is now at 9 (after pumping co2). I am thinking about this meter, only because it is cheap....have you used this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Indoor-Air-Quali...item2c59def087

r3dn3ck said:
I use a 5x5x8 room and I typically run in 3cuft of CO2 per day. To do so it's programmed to release gas for 15 minutes 4x a day at 3cubic feet per hour). I should see 60 days a bottle. I couldn't tell you the PPM I'm ending up with which is probably a mistake (waiting for funds for a meter). It would appear we are both making the same mistake, not using a meter. Your dispersal setup is decent. As long as the exhaust fans are off, you can run the room fans provided you have an otherwise well sealed room. FWIW, I'm using probably 4x the amount of gas I should have to due to my room being not totally sealed. It vents and recirculates to the rest of the big-ass room it's contained in so I like to build the level for the whole room. CO2 is cheap anyway.

You know your flow rate from the meter, in cubic feet per hour, and how long you've programmed it to run for over each 24hr period so you'll know how long you get out of a bottle from there since a bottle only holds so much (180cubc feet). The only way to get a specific PPM in the room to exist either at a given time or throughout the day is to use a controller that is triggered based on PPM.

So, get a meter. Get me one too.

Right on brother, thanks for letting me know your setup. Does it prove beneficial in your situation? I found this meter here for pretty cheap. Take care!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Indoor-Air-Quali...item2c59def087

woodsmaneh! · Jan 4, 2011

I run a co2 generator and use 20lb BBQ tanks. MY room is 14x12x8=1344sq. ft

I run a CAP green house controller and CAP Co2 monitor. Both cost me about 800$ 7 years ago. I burn 1 tank ever 7 to 9 days and run at 1800ppm.

You can run the way you are but to get the most you need a control system and monitor.

Just make sure you have a small fan on the floor blowing gently, GENTLY!!! Try to have the fan set so the air goes in a circle, everyone get there fair share that way.

You should up the temperature to mid 80's for best effect on the plants when lights are on.
Your plants will use more food and water also. Co2 speeds up the plants, kind like Nitrous in cars.

You can get a increase of up to 30% in Yield but most people never see that, if your good at growing 15%, if your a god 20%, if your me 25%.
Most shops don't like selling co2 because most people have not mastered the Basics so they wonder whay they don't get 30%+, well the sad truth is 75% of growers don't know much about about growing very well.

Comments on your grow IMHO

Looks great, nice work!
You should LST the tall ones so the short guys get their fair share of light.
You might want to Back off the food a bit. see below
Don't veg so long or lollipop your plants. You got no light reaching the last foot or so of plant. Smaller plants will better use all your light and still give you the same or better yield. If you like them tall trim the bottom foot, all you get is popcorn. This is a good way to help prevent bugs and mildew if you have a fan blowing acroos the tops of your pails, helps stop fungus nats.

You have some leaf rolling going on,

[FONT=&quot]Too much marijuana fertilizer[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
The most common cause of marijuana leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, and leaf tip curl/burn is overzealous use of marijuana plant food. In relationship to factors such as marijuana plant vigor and rate of growth. Leaf burn is often the very first sign of too much marijuana fertilizer.
A hard, crispy feel to the marijuana leaf frequently occurs as well, as opposed to a soft and cool feel of a happy pot leaf. Back off on the amount and/or frequency of using marijuana fertilizer. Too much marijuana fertilizer can also burn the roots, especially the sensitive root tips, which then creates another set of problems. Note - as soil dries, the concentration of the remaining salts rises further exacerbating the problem. [/FONT]

laughingduck · Jan 4, 2011

aeviaanah said:
Thanks for the response, i wasnt aware of co2 raising ph in hydro setups...I will be sure to monitor that as well. I do not have a humidifier but room is pretty dry, even after a good dose of co2...is this because co2 will naturally raise humidity? RH in room started at 6 and is now at 9 (after pumping co2). I am thinking about this meter, only because it is cheap....have you used this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Indoor-Air-Quali...item2c59def087

Right on brother, thanks for letting me know your setup. Does it prove beneficial in your situation? I found this meter here for pretty cheap. Take care!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Indoor-Air-Quali...item2c59def087

When you seal a room properly for co2 the humidity has nowhere to go, the humidity comes from the transpiration at the plants. The lower the humidity the easier it is for the plant to transpire, i usually run about 50% to 60% works well for me. That meter is a good start, at least you will know what your ppms are, and the high and low ends up throught the day. 1500 is good, 2000 plus is bad. Two good methods to use co2- 1- to insure that co2 levels are acceptable, 500 to 1000 ppm, 2- to enrich to a 1500ppm constant level is good to. Oh one more thing, ( I realize i jump around) The low humidity helps to eliminate co2 regulator FREEZES, low humidity, no moisture to freeze.

woodsmaneh! · Jan 4, 2011

Humidity would go up due to the increased transpiration from the plants.

aeviaanah · Jan 4, 2011

woodsmaneh! said:
I run a co2 generator and use 20lb BBQ tanks. MY room is 14x12x8=1344sq. ft

I run a CAP green house controller and CAP Co2 monitor. Both cost me about 800$ 7 years ago. I burn 1 tank ever 7 to 9 days and run at 1800ppm.

You can run the way you are but to get the most you need a control system and monitor.

Just make sure you have a small fan on the floor blowing gently, GENTLY!!! Try to have the fan set so the air goes in a circle, everyone get there fair share that way.

You should up the temperature to mid 80's for best effect on the plants when lights are on.
Your plants will use more food and water also. Co2 speeds up the plants, kind like Nitrous in cars.

You can get a increase of up to 30% in Yield but most people never see that, if your good at growing 15%, if your a god 20%, if your me 25%.
Most shops don't like selling co2 because most people have not mastered the Basics so they wonder whay they don't get 30%+, well the sad truth is 75% of growers don't know much about about growing very well.

Comments on your grow IMHO

Looks great, nice work!
You should LST the tall ones so the short guys get their fair share of light.
You might want to Back off the food a bit. see below
Don't veg so long or lollipop your plants. You got no light reaching the last foot or so of plant. Smaller plants will better use all your light and still give you the same or better yield. If you like them tall trim the bottom foot, all you get is popcorn. This is a good way to help prevent bugs and mildew if you have a fan blowing acroos the tops of your pails, helps stop fungus nats.

You have some leaf rolling going on,

[FONT=&quot]Too much marijuana fertilizer[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
The most common cause of marijuana leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, and leaf tip curl/burn is overzealous use of marijuana plant food. In relationship to factors such as marijuana plant vigor and rate of growth. Leaf burn is often the very first sign of too much marijuana fertilizer.
A hard, crispy feel to the marijuana leaf frequently occurs as well, as opposed to a soft and cool feel of a happy pot leaf. Back off on the amount and/or frequency of using marijuana fertilizer. Too much marijuana fertilizer can also burn the roots, especially the sensitive root tips, which then creates another set of problems. Note - as soil dries, the concentration of the remaining salts rises further exacerbating the problem. [/FONT]

Hey thanks for the reply! I am looking into buying a cheap monitor, not ready for a controller right now. I am just supplementing a bit if you know what i mean, not making the full jump yet.
My fan runs at 320 cfm and my room is 312 cubic ft, so i guess if i run this for one minute i have already exchanged the rooms air...my room is not completely sealed and i usually run my exhaust all day long. I should put it on a timer....this should help raise temps and humidity right?

I do agree co2 wont help if you arent aware of the basics to a healthy plant.

I am aware of too much fertilizer, if you look at my soil plants you will see they are as healthy as possible. The hydro plant is the first time i have tried hydro, i am feeding it lots of samples and stuff. LOL i am pushing ppm to the limits with her. I have tried lollipopping and lst. I like the simplicity of a single cola plant...it is interesting watching how different strains grow on there own..this provides a great knowledge base for training next round (if i decide to). If youd like to see more about the grow check out journal in sig. Most of these pictures focus on that dirty hydro plant!

aeviaanah · Jan 4, 2011

laughingduck said:
When you seal a room properly for co2 the humidity has nowhere to go, the humidity comes from the transpiration at the plants. The lower the humidity the easier it is for the plant to transpire, i usually run about 50% to 60% works well for me. That meter is a good start, at least you will know what your ppms are, and the high and low ends up throught the day. 1500 is good, 2000 plus is bad. Two good methods to use co2- 1- to insure that co2 levels are acceptable, 500 to 1000 ppm, 2- to enrich to a 1500ppm constant level is good to. Oh one more thing, ( I realize i jump around) The low humidity helps to eliminate co2 regulator FREEZES, low humidity, no moisture to freeze.

Hey thanks for the good information, my room is not sealed fully. There is a one inch gap from where the enclosure tarp hangs from the ceiling, edges where they meet with walls arent sealed either. Should i be doing anything different?

woodsmaneh! · Jan 4, 2011

My fan runs at 320 cfm and my room is 312 cubic ft, so i guess if i run this for one minute i have already exchanged the rooms air...Yup my room is not completely sealed ( you need to seal it pretty good) and i usually run my exhaust all day long. Nope can't do that anymore. I should put it on a timer....this should help raise temps and humidity right? Yup

Using a few timers is an excellent way to get the most out of the setup. You might consider something like this
co2 on for 15
all off 30 (co2 and exhaust fans)
Exhaust on 15

Now you need to see how long it takes for the room to get to 1500ppm so you know you have it on long enough.
Next monitor temp while all is off. It may only take 15 min to get to say 95 so adjust the off cycle. Better to come on sooner than later. Remember you wat the temps to be mid 80 so the plants can use the extra co2.

I do agree co2 wont help if you arent aware of the basics to a healthy plant.

I am aware of too much fertilizer, if you look at my soil plants you will see they are as healthy as possible. The hydro plant is the first time i have tried hydro, i am feeding it lots of samples and stuff. LOL i am pushing ppm to the limits with her. I have tried lollipopping and lst. I like the simplicity of a single cola plant...it is interesting watching how different strains grow on there own..this provides a great knowledge base for training next round (if i decide to). If youd like to see more about the grow check out journal in sig. Most of these pictures focus on that dirty hydro plant!

I did notice that and looked 3 times, they look great, I did the hydro for years but got lazy so now it's dirt for me, all I do is water. Nice grow +1

woodsmaneh! · Jan 4, 2011

Due to the size of my room I keep it at 1800 which means the plants farthest from the monitor are getting 1500ppm. 1500 is the standard.

laughingduck · Jan 4, 2011

aeviaanah said:
Hey thanks for the good information, my room is not sealed fully. There is a one inch gap from where the enclosure tarp hangs from the ceiling, edges where they meet with walls arent sealed either. Should i be doing anything different?

Untill you seal the room up, your kinda hittin at it, and you will likey not recieve the results you want.

aeviaanah · Jan 4, 2011

laughingduck said:
Untill you seal the room up, your kinda hittin at it, and you will likey not recieve the results you want.

I get great results without co2...i purchased regulator and bottle for an unbeatable price. wasnt even thinking about getting a setup....a deal came across that i couldnt pass up. now i am just learning about it and working out the qwerks.

aeviaanah · Jan 4, 2011

woodsmaneh! said:
My fan runs at 320 cfm and my room is 312 cubic ft, so i guess if i run this for one minute i have already exchanged the rooms air...Yup my room is not completely sealed ( you need to seal it pretty good) and i usually run my exhaust all day long. Nope can't do that anymore. I should put it on a timer....this should help raise temps and humidity right? Yup

Using a few timers is an excellent way to get the most out of the setup. You might consider something like this
co2 on for 15
all off 30 (co2 and exhaust fans)
Exhaust on 15

Now you need to see how long it takes for the room to get to 1500ppm so you know you have it on long enough.
Next monitor temp while all is off. It may only take 15 min to get to say 95 so adjust the off cycle. Better to come on sooner than later. Remember you wat the temps to be mid 80 so the plants can use the extra co2.

I do agree co2 wont help if you arent aware of the basics to a healthy plant.

I am aware of too much fertilizer, if you look at my soil plants you will see they are as healthy as possible. The hydro plant is the first time i have tried hydro, i am feeding it lots of samples and stuff. LOL i am pushing ppm to the limits with her. I have tried lollipopping and lst. I like the simplicity of a single cola plant...it is interesting watching how different strains grow on there own..this provides a great knowledge base for training next round (if i decide to). If youd like to see more about the grow check out journal in sig. Most of these pictures focus on that dirty hydro plant!

I did notice that and looked 3 times, they look great, I did the hydro for years but got lazy so now it's dirt for me, all I do is water. Nice grow +1

Right on bro, i appreciate your help...as of now, i will just shut off exhaust, pump co2 for 5-10 minutes...let everything sit for 15-30 minutes. turn on exhaust, repeat 3x a day or so. how does that sound until i can get the monitor? i have to figure out what to do with my exaust when im not running co2, this will all come later with the monitor. got any good starting points WITHOUT the monitor? i guess it will all be based on humidity and temps.

laughingduck · Jan 4, 2011

aeviaanah said:
I get great results without co2...i purchased regulator and bottle for an unbeatable price. wasnt even thinking about getting a setup....a deal came across that i couldnt pass up. now i am just learning about it and working out the qwerks.

My bad, I have just had to address every one of these freakin problems, so i was just tryin to share. (it was a little bit of a battel)

aeviaanah · Jan 4, 2011

laughingduck said:
My bad, I have just had to address every one of these freakin problems, so i was just tryin to share. (it was a little bit of a battel)

Were they actual problems or just stuff that could make the co2 more efficient? I think cracking the bottle a few times a day should prove beneficial, without following the rules.

ecofrog · Jan 5, 2011

laughingduck said:
Another problem i have had is the air pumps should not be sucking from a co2 enriched area, this causes ph in tanks to constantly creep up.

im afraid this is not correct. While I have no doubt that you pH creeps, its not from the CO2. Infact, quite the opposite is true in that CO2 enrichment will decrease the pH of water as the CO2 turns to carbonic acid. Aquarium owners know this process well and utilize it. If you google 'ocean acidification', which is the same process of adding CO2 to our oceans, thereby lowering the pH, you can get a much more complete explanation.

Not sure why your pH creeps up but its not from CO2, quite the opposite.

Need co2 help

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