Female Pistols on Male Plant = ?

spiked1 · #1 04-11-2009, 09:34 PM

During one of my experiments I used La Femme female hormones (NAA) on a batch of 10 plants to see if it would produce all females.
This wasn't a success, I got 5x females and 5x males.
Anyway I decided to keep 1 male for breeding and have just noticed it has pistols growing mixed in with the male balls.
I wouldn't call it a hermie as it's predominately a male, and the female hormones have caused the pistols to grow, but what will happen if I

1: If I use the pollen on a female, is it likely to produse normal seeds or what can I expect?

2: If I let it pollenate itself what is likely to happen?

SpruceZeus · #2 04-12-2009, 01:22 AM

Interesting, a male plant forced hermie.
Assuming that this wasn't in fact a genetic hermie but a forced hermie, then the pollen should be unaffected and assuming it polinates a standard female should produce regular seeds. Nothing too exciting.
However, If you let this plant polinate itself. It should (i think) produce Masculinized (all male) seeds. Which, while not practical for everybody, could be of some use to the breeding types.

I'd be interested to hear some follow up on this if you end up doing anything with it.

Peace

spiked1 · #3 04-12-2009, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpruceZeus

Interesting, a male plant forced hermie.
Assuming that this wasn't in fact a genetic hermie but a forced hermie, then the pollen should be unaffected and assuming it polinates a standard female should produce regular seeds. Nothing too exciting.
However, If you let this plant polinate itself. It should (i think) produce Masculinized (all male) seeds. Which, while not practical for everybody, could be of some use to the breeding types.

I'd be interested to hear some follow up on this if you end up doing anything with it.

Peace

That's exactly what I thought might happen the more I think about it,
But the male has X and Y so it could be possible to produce XX and XY seeds if it self polinates,
where a female gone hermie shoud only have XX.
I'm going to grow it out just out of curiousity.

SpruceZeus · #4 04-12-2009, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiked1

stranger things have happened in nature I guess.

I never cease to be amazed at the wacky things marijuana will do.
Its also staggering how far the science of cultivation has come in the short time it has been popular (in the west, indoors)

bigjesse1922 · #5 04-12-2009, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpruceZeus

I never cease to be amazed at the wacky things marijuana will do.
Its also staggering how far the science of cultivation has come in the short time it has been popular (in the west, indoors)

If you two create some sort of genetically mutated pot plant that comes and smokes my ass....I am gonna be hella pissed....

born2killspam · #6 04-12-2009, 06:14 AM

Actually there is no way to know what the plant will do under normal circumstances because it hasn't been stress tested for its tendency to produce intersex flowers without hormone application.. It may not even be primarily male at all.. It is beyond rare for a observably male plant to express female after the very early stages of life.. Its believed that certain positive environmental conditions very early promote more female expression, and negative environment later will tend to promote hermies as we know them..
Wikipedia cannabis entry has quite a bit worth reading..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis

Quote:

Mechanisms of sex determination

Cannabis has been described as having one of the most complicated mechanisms of sex determination among the dioecious plants.[60] Many models have been proposed to explain sex determination in Cannabis.

Based on studies of sex reversal in hemp, it was first reported by K. Hirata in 1924 that an XY sex-determination system is present.[58] At the time, the XY system was the only known system of sex determination. The X:A system was first described in Drosophila spp in 1925.[61] Soon thereafter, Schaffner disputed Hirata's interpretation,[62] and published results from his own studies of sex reversal in hemp, concluding that an X:A system was in use and that furthermore sex was strongly influenced by environmental conditions.[59]

Since then, many different types of sex determination systems have been discovered, particularly in plants.[53] Dioecy is relatively uncommon in the plant kingdom, and a very low percentage of dioecious plant species have been determined to use the XY system. In most cases where the XY system is found it is believed to have evolved recently and independently.[63]

Since the 1920s, a number of sex determination models have been proposed for Cannabis. Ainsworth describes sex determination in the genus as using "an X/autosome dosage type".[53]

Dense raceme of carpellate flowers typical of drug-type varieties of Cannabis

The question of whether heteromorphic sex chromosomes are indeed present is most conveniently answered if such chromosomes were clearly visible in a karyotype. Cannabis was one of the first plant species to be karyotyped; however, this was in a period when karyotype preparation was primitive by modern standards (see History of Cytogenetics). Heteromorphic sex chromosomes were reported to occur in staminate individuals of dioecious "Kentucky" hemp, but were not found in pistillate individuals of the same variety. Dioecious "Kentucky" hemp was assumed to use an XY mechanism. Heterosomes were not observed in analyzed individuals of monoecious "Kentucky" hemp, nor in an unidentified German cultivar. These varieties were assumed to have sex chromosome composition XX.[64] According to other researchers, no modern karyotype of Cannabis had been published as of 1996.[65] Proponents of the XY system state that Y chromosome is slightly larger than the X, but difficult to differentiate cytologically.[66]

More recently, Sakamoto and various co-authors[67][68] have used RAPD to isolate several genetic marker sequences that they name Male-Associated DNA in Cannabis (MADC), and which they interpret as indirect evidence of a male chromosome. Several other research groups have reported identification of male-associated markers using RAPD and AFLP.[17][41][69] Ainsworth commented on these findings, stating,

It is not surprising that male-associated markers are relatively abundant. In dioecious plants where sex chromosomes have not been identified, markers for maleness indicate either the presence of sex chromosomes which have not been distinguished by cytological methods or that the marker is tightly linked to a gene involved in sex determination.[53]

Environmental sex determination is known to occur in a variety of species.[70] Many researchers have suggested that sex in Cannabis is determined or strongly influenced by environmental factors.[59] Ainsworth reviews that treatment with auxin and ethylene have feminizing effects, and that treatment with cytokinins and gibberellins have masculinizing effects.[53] It has been reported that sex can be reversed in Cannabis using chemical treatment.[71] A PCR-based method for the detection of female-associated DNA polymorphisms by genotyping has been developed.

robert 14617 · #7 04-12-2009, 06:19 AM

What is an hermaphrodite?

An hermaphrodite, or hermie, is a plant of one sex that develops the sexual organs of the other sex. Most commonly, a flowering female plant will develop staminate flowers, though the reverse is also true. Primarily male hermaphrodites are not as well recognized only because few growers let their males reach a point of flowering where the pistillate would be expressed.

funny its been here in the grow FAQ the hole time

born2killspam · #8 04-12-2009, 07:33 AM

Yea, but that isn't a very concise definition at all.. Typically in botany a hermaphrodite produces flowers that possess both sex organs, not separate flowers of each.. What we observe is actually a monoecious plant.. Not that it matters, its a destroyer of nugs whatever you label it..

robert 14617 · #9 04-12-2009, 07:55 AM

Primarily male hermaphrodites are not as well recognized only because few growers let their males reach a point of flowering where the pistillate would be expressed.

really i think it says it all read the first post

DownOnWax · #10 04-12-2009, 08:04 AM

I am really curious about this myself.

I have a male that I saved to polinate my upcoming females but then the other day it started sprouting tons of pistils.
Now, I am not even sure if I want to polinate anything with it.

Is it a hermie with more male charecteristics?

If I do polinate a seperate plant will it produce hermie seeds? Or will it go back to being 50% male or female?
I am not even considering saving the seeds that get self- polinated.

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