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  #11    
Old 01-04-2009, 09:43 AM
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Below is the chemical equation of how a plant emits O2 and metabolizes.

6CO2 + 6H2O (+ light energy) --> C6H12O6 + 6O2

6 Carbon dioxide molecules plus 6 water molecules plus energy (6 H2O) are remade into 1 glucose sugar molecule and 6 gaseous oxygen molecules.

Looking at that it even seems clear. People are supplementing CO2 with great results. It Takes 6 - CO2 AND 6 - H20 to make 1 glucose sugar molecule. If your Supplementing CO2 and seeing an increase WITHOUT adding extra Hydrogen, just think of how many more Glucose Sugar Molecules you could be producing with extra Hydrogen!!!
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Last edited by oscarmiya; 01-04-2009 at 09:47 AM..
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertrat View Post
and the score is 16 to 14 if you aren't watching. seriously, and this about exhausts my knowledge on the subject, i think an electrical current in a fuel cell separates 3 oxygen molecules, making two ozone molecules. the ozone is extremely unstable and combines with h2 to form water and energy. but i could be hallucinating. btw, hydrogen peroxide is h2o2
Haha, Don't love a good ole Chem Discussion that much huh? I hear ya tho bro, I'm gonna go burn one and watch a couple movies. Man I hope more people chime in the meantime. I took a lot of time researching this shit and it makes a whole bunch of sense so I hope people discuss it a little. I will try it, maybe this week or later however will be a process that is more than just a week.

Either way, H2O2 is still Hydrogen and Oxygen, actually even possibly better since its just more Oxygen.
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  #13    
Old 01-04-2009, 10:19 AM
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very interesting read, should take it to one of those inventor shows !

good luck with this
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Old 01-04-2009, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Hedgehunter View Post
very interesting read, should take it to one of those inventor shows !

good luck with this

Hahah, I'm more of a thinker, bad entrepreneur lol. Someone else can take the credit, I just want better/more WEED! Glad somebody else thinks this is interesting too, I was beginning to think "I hope I'm not one of those dipshits who says something real stupid and no1's even wants to comment" lol. If I came across this thread I would have been real interested because I am pretty sure the points I am making are Valid, yet outside the box.. Thanks for commenting tho man. I will try and build one this week if I get around to it. If it works how I expect, after the Hydrogen Cell is constructed, it will be as easy as hooking up to your existing air line or separately ran tube just like your air line.
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Last edited by oscarmiya; 01-04-2009 at 10:28 AM..
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:52 PM
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Interesting thought but I don't think the plant is utilizing the H- (hydrogen anion). Yes, plants need hydrogen but they get it from water (inside of the plant cells) along with the carbon from CO2. Remember the photosynthesis equation 6 CO2 + 12 H2O + photon energy → C6H12O6 + 6 O2 + 6 H2O. Hydrogen is not the limiting factor here CO2 and light are.

I do believe that the pH that plants uptake nutrients most efficiently is species specific. Also different nutes are absorbed more efficiently at different ranges so 5.8 is not a hard and fast rule either.
However, for the difference between soil and hydro, my first assumption is that it has something to do with the buffers in soil that require a higher pH.
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:28 PM
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i just read this whole thread....im smarter now thanks guys
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindphuk View Post
Interesting thought but I don't think the plant is utilizing the H- (hydrogen anion). Yes, plants need hydrogen but they get it from water (inside of the plant cells) along with the carbon from CO2. Remember the photosynthesis equation 6 CO2 + 12 H2O + photon energy → C6H12O6 + 6 O2 + 6 H2O. Hydrogen is not the limiting factor here CO2 and light are.

I do believe that the pH that plants uptake nutrients most efficiently is species specific. Also different nutes are absorbed more efficiently at different ranges so 5.8 is not a hard and fast rule either.
However, for the difference between soil and hydro, my first assumption is that it has something to do with the buffers in soil that require a higher pH.
6CO2 + 6H2O (+ light energy) --> C6H12O6 + 6O2 is the correct Photosynthesis Equation, just as I posted at the top of Page 2. In your equation and in mine (the correct one) lol idk, more so in yours, Hydrogen could still be a limiting factor.
I don't understand your reasoning though. In your equation your saying for every 12 H2O there has to be 6 CO2's- Which makes even more sense to supplement Hydrogen.. because it is needed TWICE as much as Carbon to make a glucose sugar molecule.. which is whats used for energy. I know the plant gets Hydrogen from water, thats why you put MORE hydrogen in the water... According to the equation, Hydrogen is JUST as important as CO2 and Lights, how could you say differently? Think of it, Water gives life to everything. Would your seeds have sprouted with Just Light and CO2??? They NEED the HYDROGEN atoms to build cellular structure! It seem's simple yet no one ever seems to say anything about Hydrogen, when it is just as important as Carbon..
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by aknight3 View Post
i just read this whole thread....im smarter now thanks guys
Haha, I know what ya mean! I'm following this shit though.. Too Focused- Stoner in action! I have a good feeling I am on to something.
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oscarmiya View Post
6CO2 + 6H2O (+ light energy) --> C6H12O6 + 6O2 is the correct Photosynthesis Equation, just as I posted at the top of Page 2. In your equation and in mine (the correct one) lol idk, more so in yours, Hydrogen could still be a limiting factor.
I don't understand your reasoning though. In your equation your saying for every 12 H2O there has to be 6 CO2's- Which makes even more sense to supplement Hydrogen.. because it is needed TWICE as much as Carbon to make a glucose sugar molecule.. which is whats used for energy. I know the plant gets Hydrogen from water, thats why you put MORE hydrogen in the water... According to the equation, Hydrogen is JUST as important as CO2 and Lights, how could you say differently? Think of it, Water gives life to everything. Would your seeds have sprouted with Just Light and CO2??? They NEED the HYDROGEN atoms to build cellular structure! It seem's simple yet no one ever seems to say anything about Hydrogen, when it is just as important as Carbon..
Yes, the equations are identical. The water produced as a result of photosynthesis just cancels out the water that was used in the first place. I skimmed some parts and missed that you posted the equation earlier.

Anyway, what I'm saying is intracellular water is what is used in photosynthesis. Increasing hydrogen anions at the roots only affect pH, it will not do anything to the water in the leaves where the photosynthesis is taking place. The best way to make sure a plant has enough hydrogen is to make sure it has a good healthy root system and the ability to uptake as much water as it needs.

Last edited by mindphuk; 01-04-2009 at 01:51 PM..
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:42 PM
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BTW, I found a good explanation over on gardenscure.com
Quote:
It has to do with nutrient solubility and cation exchange capacity(CEC). In hydroponics the plants rely on the solution to supply the needed nutrients, so you have to maintain the solution pH at a point where the best balance of nutrients are soluble, while preventing precipitation, and thus availible to be taken up by the plant. In soil some of the nutrients are actually held and later released by clay particles, cation exchange, thus the pH at which the nutrients are most soluble, the ones that are only availible to the plants via the solution , is a bit higher.

If your substrate has a high CEC you can and arguably should irrigate with a slightly higher pH solution, to provide the plants the best opportunity to take up the nutrients that it can only get via the irrigation. Allowing the CEC of the substrate to provide the cation elements as the plant needs them.
 

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