I don't know what is in the AN line, I know it works great, and know what each ingredient is supposed to do...

I don't know what stereates or if diammonium phosphate is used...

Thanks for the great response spamkiller. +rep 4 you.

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Eh, I'm a science guy.. These are the threads I can really get into..

That would be two benthic bacteria species (nitrobacter & nitrosomonas), both of which essentially oxidize the goldfish's nitrogenous wastes (urine, or in the case of the freshwater fish, urea excreted through the gills primarily, it's all got to do with osmoregulation) into less and less toxic compounds. The goldfish, by the way, is known in fish circles for being one of the "dirtiest" freshwater fishes to keep for the amount of ammonia they seem to produce along with skin slime that breaks down into nitrogenous wastes as well, so great choice! There are also anaerobic bacteria that can further break down the final nitrate compound you're left with completely, actually breaking the nitrogen free completely and allowing it to dissipate as good old N! However, those bacteria require, obviously, an anaerobic environment and that, by necessity, must be a very low water movement area/filter.

This stuff is fascinating, in part because one of the "new" things in reefkeeping is the utilization of carbohydrates in the form of VODKA to help support those benthic nitrifying bacteria that break down the NH3. I was pretty amazed when I read it, people dumping vodka down into their sumps, and then watching nitrate levels fall through the floor! I don't know if this is used in conjunction with foam fractionation, or with refugia set-ups, bare-bottom, or what. (I used to work the trade and still read and use some forums.) From what I've read elsewhere, the molasses is indeed more directly beneficial to the microbes than it is to the plant. However, that being said, there seems to be a good deal of empirical or anecdotal evidence that there is a benefit to using it.
Yes, but aren't they interested in growing different things? Or are you saying that whatever the "thing" is, they all want to eat the same things? If so... I am incredulous, or at least interested in what you mean by that.
That's just it, they DON'T all produce alcohol as a byproduct. Otherwise... (I'm a woman)... certain types of infections would be more fun. EW!

So, I think that the missing link here begins with Mycorrhizae and other soil microbes. My understanding of the function of Mycorrhizae (endo and ecto) is that they do two things; First, they encourage the proper type of root growth, that being the fine hair-like roots where the nutrient uptake actually takes place; Second, they also break down nutrients and minerals, and act essentially as tiny little Agents of Chelation, because they are basically chelating nutrients. This seems to be very well documented.

I know y'all are speaking specifically of hydroponic/aquaponic growing, but the plant is the plant is the plant, and what it requires to grow and live and thrive is what it requires. At this point I figure if I can learn about coral reefs well enough to emulate that environment and grow corals and other reef inverts/vertebrates, i can learn about this! This is a GREAT thread, too, by the way, these are things that are new to me and I really REALLY love it.

Of course, the goldfish inspired me to actually post something here. I am such a fish geek.

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Yea, you definately seem to know your fish, and aquatic ecosystem stuff..
I'm interested in the brew additives mainly because they seem to boost whatever microbial colonies happen to be present in a fermentation (whether desired or not).. Obviously the goal is to make the yeast happy, but if there is some kind of bacterial infection when you start a fermentation, then the bacteria totally outcompete the yeast (with or without special additives).. But it becomes brutally obvious that there is an infection quite a bit sooner with the energizers/micronutrients, so logic dictates that alot of these micro-organisms have similar tastes.. I'm just shooting at the broad side of the barn on this one..
And thanks for bringing up the chelating agent point.. I meant to mention that earlier, but kept going off on tangents.. Thats something ppl can read up on directly and easily get the gist of alot of these reactions..

This reminds me so much of the conversations I would have with my Botany Prof. Weeden (yes that was his real name, well known in the Botany community, largest Herbarium in the US outside of the Ivy League) in college. We'd sit at the bar on fri nights and go over the weeks material. And I'd ask alot of questions about my "tomato's" Intellectual stimulation over a few beers and a few trips out to the car to "make a phone call" <---"Phone call"
+reps if i could leave em Spam

Glad to hear you have a botany prof.. Get that guy involved in this conversation..

Had... Gradumacated back in 03. Def gonna put this together in an email for him to review. Busy guy though, might take a while for him to respond.

It is to my understanding that not it is possible that not all plants form relationships with mycorrhizae, but may do. I'm not sure if cannabis or even any other N loving plant for that matter forms this type of relationship even if it seems beneficial to the plant. Soybeans fix N back into the soil, and their realtionships with N-fixing agrobacterium are well documented.

Everyone seems to be in agreement that micronutrients (if any, like sulfur) are probably good for the plant, and that the sugar portion of the molasses is for bacteria and/or fungi living within the soil, and products of the bacterial/fungal digestion are good for the plant.

I'm glad a lot of you said things that were correct and insightful, so I didn't have to say them (no typing = ). Next Time I get a chance to look more closely at soil when its dumped from the pot, I'm going to look for mycorrhizae. Anything that gives the plants more stuff to eat, and/or expands the rhizopshere...I'm all for.

I used to ask my botany/plant phys prof about my "tomatos" too.

@ fish tank lady. You're pretty awesome if you're growing corals. I'm trying seagrass in a weird shallow custom made tank with only some hermit crabs. We'll see how it goes.

if you can do reef tanks cannabis is childs play. that was my job for 6 years aquarium maintenance and yes in aquaponics goldfish or koi(carp really) are great because of there waste levels and ease of care there are other good choices but goldfish are cheap. i ussually add bogwood or peat products to drop ph and increase tannins and humic acids ussually i end up with a ph of 6 to 6.5. not best ph for goldfish but they will handle most anything you have no idea. i wait until nitrates are in the hundreds and use this water(with added supplements) on organic soil grows with good results. sorry a little off subject but if you have access to aquarium water preferably with bogwood or peat applied it is a great living source of good water just make sure no rock salt/methelyne blue/copper or other medications etc..etc... were added for the fish as this will kill or stress plants. as far as sugars(botanicare sweet) i use them mainly to strengthen microbiological populations in the soil which in turn makes nutrients more available to the plant. i do notice a large difference in root mass when i use tarantula and piranha with carbs as opposed to plants that were not inoculated with these fungus and bacteria species i think these products tend to work symbiotically with the living aquarium water for a overall healthy microbiological population. afterall bacteria make the world go round you have more bacteria in your gut than you have cells in your body and without them your health will be poor i feel in soil grows the same is true.

Like Bicycle Racer said,
Quote: I do notice a large difference in root mass when I use tarantula and pirahna with carbs as opposed to not.

Me too.

I noticed an extreme increase in yield when I started creating fungus and bacteria colonies in the soil. And root mas was outstanding.

At the time I did this I was still using the 3part non organic line, and basically this is what made me switch to organics. Such a dramatic increase in root size and yield got me intrested in organic compounds, and how they benefit the plant.

I'm not very scientific, but understand what you're talking about... Just don't know all the chemical names.

Does anyone know what fungus and bacteria pirahna and tarantula are made of?

I wish I still had my 125 saltwater bowfront aquarium, had to leave it with the house... I bet it's a crappy goldfish home now... With stupid plastic crap that makes bubbles... Stupid crap.

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